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Catpain Rich 10-05-10 07:06 PM

Saying all black people play basketball is racist. Incidentally so is saying that all black people have massive cocks. In each you're making massive generalisations of a group of people due to the colour of their skin (ie being racist). Being stereotypical about race is racist.

That is if you're doing it for racist reasons.

loyalist42 10-05-10 07:08 PM

Conservatives use socialist more often these days, sure. But perhaps their greatest coup over the last decade has been vilifying the word 'liberal'. I see it everywhere from Fox News to political campaign ads. And it gets thrown around ridiculously often, frequently when describing someone who would not classify him/herself as a liberal.

I'll agree the term 'racist' is overused today, but not nearly to the extent many conservative commentators would have you believe. And to be honest, the people that do overuse the term are making themselves no friends on either side of the fence.

But by the same token, many people use objection to political correctness more or less as cover to express their own racist stances. There is a difference there, but try telling that to the person in question and your argument is dismissed out of hand. Go figure.

Lord Sven Kittyclaw 10-05-10 07:19 PM

I have found that so so so many people love to play the race card, I have seen people get found with illegal substances, and weapons by the police, and say "its because im___ (Insert persons origins or race here) Its fucking idiotic. Your the racest if your pulling race. Not the person busting you for being a dumbass.

Davidicus 40k 10-05-10 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catpain Rich (Post 748076)
Saying all black people play basketball is racist. Incidentally so is saying that all black people have massive cocks. In each you're making massive generalisations of a group of people due to the colour of their skin (ie being racist). Being stereotypical about race is racist.

That is if you're doing it for racist reasons.

Like I said, that generalization could be considered inconsiderate if the black (OH NO! African American*) friend was offended. But it's not racist.

Discriminating by race = racism (you're black, you can't come in here). Though of course private institutions can allow whoever they want, and I defend that right.
Saying one race is inherently better than another = racism. This is the purest definition.
Stereotyping based on race = not racism. It's just a stereotype.

That's how I see it, anyways. Unfortunately, it's not how most people see it, which leads to the gross misuse of the term by some people (in my opinion). It's not the majority, which I'm thankful for, but I still get annoyed when I see it happen. Note that I count people who try to inappropriately use their race as a shield in this group (like Sven Kittyclaw's example above). "He busted me because I'm Mexican, not because I had crack in my car!"

I don't know how to multi-quote messages, but loyalist, I agree "liberal" may have become a synonym for "money-sucking, rights-stealing hippie pig", but aren't Conservatives "gun-loving, Bible-thumping rednecks?" I'm sure you know it goes both ways. As for people abusing racism, I'm glad it's not to the extent Conservative commentators would have me believe because if it was, I'd move somewhere else.

Political correctness as a whole can get out of hand as well, not just when dealing with racism, but discrimination in general. The whole subject is vague and largely dependent on an individual's feelings, so trying to combat it without going overboard is very hard. The best advice we can give is think about what you say and try to take other peoples' feelings into account. When we start trying to enforce laws, things can get sticky.

Lord Sven Kittyclaw 10-05-10 07:27 PM

I agree with Davidicus, saying that (For example) All white people listen to metal would be rascist, because your generalising white people. But to say the majority of people who listen to metal are white, isnt a generalisation, or rascist. Its a fact.

loyalist42 10-05-10 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Post 748095)
I have found that so so so many people love to play the race card, I have seen people get found with illegal substances, and weapons by the police, and say "its because im___ (Insert persons origins or race here) Its fucking idiotic. Your the racest if your pulling race. Not the person busting you for being a dumbass.


Yeah, I'll agree when it happens, it's completely idiotic. But then again, the people who use the term 'racist' in that manner are dumbasses to begin with. Particularly when a police officer actually is being racist, and the victim gets jumped on as soon as s/he goes public.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidicus 40k (Post 748101)
I don't know how to multi-quote messages, but loyalist, I agree "liberal" may have become a synonym for "money-sucking, rights-stealing hippie pig", but aren't Conservatives "gun-loving, Bible-thumping rednecks?" I'm sure you know it goes both ways.


I'd love to agree that 'Conservative' has become at least as loaded a word as 'liberal', but I just don't see that. Which to my mind is likely the largest indication that the 'liberal mainstream media' trope is complete bullshit, but there you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidicus 40k
The best advice we can give is think about what you say and try to take other peoples' feelings into account. When we start trying to enforce laws, things can get sticky.

I can definitely agree with that.

Davidicus 40k 10-05-10 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Sven Kittyclaw (Post 748106)
I agree with Davidicus, saying that (For example) All white people listen to metal would be rascist, because your generalising white people. But to say the majority of people who listen to metal are white, isnt a generalisation, or rascist. Its a fact.

Is listening to metal a bad thing? Then I see it as a generalization/stereotype, not racism. If metal was Devil's music and rap was God's poetry, and a black (AFRICAN AMERICAN!) man said all white people listen to metal, I could see how it might be considered racism (even in that case, I'd be skeptical). And it is a fact that plenty of white people listen to metal. What if we say "Mexicans do menial jobs?" It's a fact, and we don't seem to mind, but couldn't that be racist since it's implying that ALL Mexicans are landscapers/farmers/house cleaners? I say no, some (most?) people say yes.

Drawing a conclusion based on someone's skin color is not racism, in my opinion, unless that conclusion is negative and you apply it ONLY to people of that skin color. If I said "Black people steal... but so does every other race", it wouldn't be racism (to me). By now you realize I'm using a strict dictionary definition, because with something this emotionally charged, I believe you have to or else innocent people will get screwed over. But like I said, any sort of discrimination is hard to define in the first place, so we're just going around in circles. Which leads to exploitation.

Catpain Rich 10-05-10 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davidicus 40k (Post 748124)
Is listening to metal a bad thing? Then I see it as a generalization/stereotype, not racism. If metal was Devil's music and rap was God's poetry, and a black (AFRICAN AMERICAN!) man said all white people listen to metal, I could see how it might be considered racism (even in that case, I'd be skeptical). And it is a fact that plenty of white people listen to metal. What if we say "Mexicans do menial jobs?" It's a fact, and we don't seem to mind, but couldn't that be racist since it's implying that ALL Mexicans are landscapers/farmers/house cleaners? I say no, some (most?) people say yes.

Drawing a conclusion based on someone's skin color is not racism, in my opinion, unless that conclusion is negative and you apply it ONLY to people of that skin color. If I said "Black people steal... but so does every other race", it wouldn't be racism (to me). By now you realize I'm using a strict dictionary definition, because with something this emotionally charged, I believe you have to or else innocent people will get screwed over. But like I said, any sort of discrimination is hard to define in the first place, so we're just going around in circles. Which leads to exploitation.

Not every black person is american.

Drawing any conclusion based on someone's skin colour (other than it is that colour) is racist surely. Beause you're distinguishing between people based on the colour of their skin.

Davidicus 40k 10-05-10 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catpain Rich (Post 748167)
Not every black person is american.

Drawing any conclusion based on someone's skin colour (other than it is that colour) is racist surely. Beause you're distinguishing between people based on the colour of their skin.

Distinguishing, not discriminating. That's where my line is. You can distinguish people by any number of features, skin color being only one of them. The most ill-advised one, as evidenced by responses like this. For your own sake, stay away from such generalizations, of course; but I don't think they're racist.

Varakir 10-05-10 08:56 PM

We sort of covered this at the start of the thread.

Words are just words. What matters is who is saying them, and why.


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