Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums

Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/)
-   Technical Help (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/112-technical-help/)
-   -   Combat Calculator How-To Guide AND Feedback/Suggestion Thread (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/technical-help/61319-combat-calculator-how-guide-feedback-suggestion-thread.html)

Galahad 04-28-10 07:58 PM

Combat Calculator How-To Guide AND Feedback/Suggestion Thread
 
The Heresy Online Combat Calculator has finally gone live and I'm really excited about it, but some of you may be wondering just what the hell it is and how it works.

To be brief, the Combat Calc is a tool for using math to determine the average effectiveness of a unit or piece of wargear (that's that MathHammer stuff you hear people talking about). Just plug in the numbers and it'll give you the average results.

Using the app is really simple. All you do is input the stats of the unit attacking and the stats of the unit defending.
If you have multiple weapon types in an attacking group, just click the 'add group' button and input the stats for the different model.

For example, a marine combat squad with 4 boltguns and a meltagun shooting at something, you could make group 1 the four models with boltguns, and group two the single meltagun.

When you hit calculate it'll give you the total results as well as the results for each type of model.

It works the same way in assault. A charging combat squad of marines with a PF sarge would have one group of 4 models with two attacks (since we're assaulting), and a second group of one model with three attacks and a powerfist. And again, it'll give you the net result as well as results by group and (in assault) by initiative.

Because we're using math to give you the average result, rather than the probability of a given result, the output is in a decimal format. This makes perfect sense for infantry vs infantry because you know you will generate multiple wounds and kills, so 3.35 models kills makes more sense than saying you have a 335% chance of killing a single model.

This is carried through in the vs vehicles section, even though to some it doesn't seem as intuitive to have a result of .33 destroyed results. Why not say 33% chance of getting a destroyed result? Because with weapons or units that generate multiple hits, or against multiple vehicles it goes back to not making as much sense sense once you start rcking up multiple results.

That's the basics right there. But The HCC is anything but a basic app. We've got some really interesting features here, so let's take a look at them.

Template: You'll notice the little dropdown next to Template. Since we can't determine how many models your template is going to touch we let you figure it out for yourself and select a number. This number is multiplied by the number of shots and/or models firing. We're assuming all your flamers can hit the same number of guys. If you want to mix it up a bit, you can always do multiple groups of flamers with different numbers of hits. In any event, selecting a number of template hits turns on Auto-Hit as well as Ignores Cover.

Blast: Similar to templates, we can't predict how many people you'll nail with a blast, so just select a number and it'll auto-hit that many per morel per shot. It also turns on a new box in the output giving you the offs of a direct hit (including scatters that turn into 0" after subtracting BS) as well as the odds of your shot scattering a given amount of inches, letting you know if that scattered blast could still be useful. For a standard blast template you know that a 1" or 2" scatter could still hit enemy models, or maybe even keep the hole on an enemy vehicle.

Gets Hot!: Click this checkbox and it pops open two new input fields, one for the firing model's armor save and one checkbox for if he has Feel No Pain. It will also give you a new results field for how likely you are to kill one of your own models with an overheat.

Hits On/Wounds On: These options are for if you have a weapon that always wounds on a given number but *isn't* poison (because of the poisoon rule that allows you tor reroll wounds if the strength of the weapon is higher than the defender's toughness), or if you have some special rule or effect that allows you to always hit on a given roll (such as wolftooth necklace in assault).

Get URL: This button spits out a unique URL with all of your variables factored in so you can link it in forum debates, or bookmark your favorite unit setups.
Here's an Example You'll notice it;s really huge. Always best to use the [URL=] and [/URL] tags when you use this feature.


In the output you see what each individual group did and the net result to the enemy unit (including their chance to fallback in shooting). You also have a new option: BB Code

Click the BB code button and it spits out a nice hunk of code you can copy and paste right into a forum post, like so.

Quote:

Shooting

Tactical Squad (Boltguns), Tactical Squad (Flamer), Tactical Squad (Missile Launcher), Tactical Squad (Sarge\'s Plas Pistol) vs Defender Group

Calculations by Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™)

-----------------------------

Attackers

Tactical Squad (Boltguns)
Shots: 14
Hit Chance: 66.67%
Hits: 9.333
Wound Chance: 66.67%
Wounds: 6.222
Unsaved Wounds: 6.222
Models Killed: 6.222
Options: Ignore Armour

Tactical Squad (Flamer)
Shots: 1
Hit Chance: 100%
Hits: 3
Wound Chance: 66.67%
Wounds: 2
Unsaved Wounds: 2
Models Killed: 2
Options: Ignore Armour, Ignore Cover, Auto Hit, Template Hits 3

Tactical Squad (Missile Launcher)
Shots: 1
Direct Hit Chance: 44.44%
1" Scatter: 7.41%
2" Scatter: 9.26%
3" Scatter: 11.11%
4-6" Scatter: 22.22%
7"+ Scatter: 5.56%
Hit Chance: 100%
Hits: 2
Wound Chance: 66.67%
Wounds: 1.333
Unsaved Wounds: 0.889
Models Killed: 0.889
Options: Auto Hit, Blast Hits 2

Tactical Squad (Sarge\'s Plas Pistol)
Shots: 1
Hit Chance: 66.67%
Hits: 0.667
Wound Chance: 83.33%
Wounds: 0.556
Unsaved Wounds: 0.556
Models Killed: 0.556
Options: Ignore Armour, Instakill

-----------------------------

Defenders

Defender Group
Hits: 15
Wounds: 10.111
Saves: 0.444
Wounds Lost: 9.667
Models Lost: 9.667 / 12 (80.6%)
Chance to fallback: 27.78%

-----------------------------
Heresy Combat Calculator™ (powered by HAMulator™)
Viola! You've just shown exactly what happens when a tactical squad opens up on a squad of guardsmen. Not good for the guard.

Once you've tried it on for size, feel free to post with suggestions, feedback or questions about the app.

Jezlad 05-01-10 10:00 AM

*Reserved.

bob sprocket 05-01-10 10:46 PM

This is an amazing effort guys. People have been looking for something like this for a long time.

As for an improvement for any future updates, I can't see anywhere it allows for master-crafted weapons, or a single re-roll. The options are re-roll all or none. This came to me when I was mathammering the new sunguinary guard unit. I know it's a pain in the ass to figure out (i did it by hand).

But an amazing effort guys. I'm book-marking this on all my computers, and all my mates computers.

Cheers

Nick

Jack Jack 05-01-10 11:30 PM

I'm assuming it calculates the individual probabilities of each result to give the average -because the definition of a statistical average (mean in english?) requires you do do so*- so why not include intervals of trust or perhaps even the individual probabilities of each shot?

A data I find particularly useful is the minimal trusted number of casualties. That is, The number of casualties I am 95% sure of going equal or above to.

For example : 20 shots hit on 3+ and wound on 4+ while ignoring armour save.
For this situation, I am causing between 3 to 10 unsaved wounds 19 times out of 20 and I am 98% sure to inflict at least 3 uwounds, and 94% sure to inflict at least 4.

I also know that I am gonna go over 10 victims only 4% of the time and less than once in a thousand times will I ever gonna be above 15.

I think a good statistical calculator should be able to give us that kind of information.

Vaz 05-01-10 11:53 PM

Get's Hot would be a nice addition. Plasma Weapons as it currently stands aren't included into the calculation.

DPT (Damage per turn) of a squad is easy enough to account for when you have bolters, etc, but a plasma weapon throws that all off skew.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

Galahad 05-02-10 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaz (Post 623931)
Get's Hot would be a nice addition. Plasma Weapons as it currently stands aren't included into the calculation.

Look again. Shoul'd be right there, a little checkbbox for 'Gets Hot' which then opens a dropdown for shooter's armor save and a checkbox for FNP. It's at the bottom of the shooting special effects, under blasts and template.

Quote:

DPT (Damage per turn) of a squad is easy enough to account for when you have bolters, etc, but a plasma weapon throws that all off skew.
Which is why I insisted on having it included ;-)

Vaz 05-02-10 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galahad (Post 623981)
Look again. Shoul'd be right there, a little checkbbox for 'Gets Hot' which then opens a dropdown for shooter's armor save and a checkbox for FNP. It's at the bottom of the shooting special effects, under blasts and template.

I swear that wasn't there before o.O. Oh well.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

Galahad 05-02-10 02:34 AM

Though to be fair, it doesn't seem to show up in the BB code output

HeadlessScarecrow 05-02-10 04:45 AM

this is awesome. extremely helpful

xSuperioRx 05-02-10 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jack (Post 623913)
I think a good statistical calculator should be able to give us that kind of information.

I actually had it included in the old HAMulator application. When I started designing this one I asked around the old HAMulator users and asked what they think about the probability distribution table, almost all said that its not needed/they never use it or that it could be added in a future update but they don't think its that necessary.

Can never satisfy everyone :grin:. But we could look into bringing it in a patch, but when depends on how much other stuff we get that would take priority.

Also, if you'd been a subscriber you'd been able to tell me you wanted that feature earlier and it might have been included already! Who knows! :so_happy:


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:52 PM.

Powered by the Emperor of Man.


vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome