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-   -   Bretonnia vs Empire (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/warhammer-fluff/50902-bretonnia-vs-empire.html)

Grimskul25 11-24-09 11:45 PM

Bretonnia vs Empire
 
I've looked at both fluffwise and despite both of their kingdoms expanding and growing I don't know which one would actually win on a 1 on 1 fight that was a full-scale conflict, not just one small battle across or at the border. So who do you think would win on a 1 vs 1 fight with all their resources at their disposal on one another? Oh and during this assume that all the other races such as Chaos, O+G, VC, etc...don't randomly come in and smash aside the weakened empires, so basically without the interruption or any attacks from any other race.

Baron Spikey 11-25-09 11:49 AM

Empire- no argument, they're vastly larger and more advanced.

deathbringer 11-25-09 12:59 PM

As much as I hate to go against my beloved and beautiful bretts it is without doubt the empire. They are larger and their armies are better trained whilst the bulk of the bretts are diseased and motley peasants

maddermax 11-25-09 01:08 PM

I'm the loner who went for Bretonnians :P Bretonnia would Obviously win! and by win, I mean draw, and by draw, I mean cut themselves off from the empire with a giant wall of peasant bodies. Nobody would miss them anyway :whistle:

At any rate, I think I've shown you doubting thomases what for!

sundrinker 11-25-09 05:41 PM

the empire has acsess to black powder so while the brettonians are being chivilrous and all the empire are blowing the crap out of them with guns. and the empire state troops far out number men at arms. also the brettonian army relies how many nights turn up and how many men they bring whereas the empire count just says right lads go kick some ass and the levy of an area bigger than austria respond.

Nipolian 11-26-09 07:46 PM

One on one Brettonia would win but the empire has a lot of allies and so does Brettonia but brettonia will not hire troops which the empire will have no problem doing. If the empire the wood elves would probably get mad and help out. Mainly because the empire would probably kick them off there land.

Brettonia would also have a easier time defending because they could use there mountains to there advantage by funneling the empire down through the mountain passes so they will not be able to take advantage of there outnumbering.

Freedirtyneedles 11-26-09 08:44 PM

brets have the favor of the lady on their side, that's gotta count for something when all those guns go off. oh and the green knight will just keep coming back no matter how many cannonballs he blocks with his face.....would actually be a cool fight in my opinion.

Yilmar 11-26-09 11:47 PM

Some factors that need to be taken into consideration:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nipolian (Post 521651)
Brettonia would also have a easier time defending because they could use there mountains to there advantage by funneling the empire down through the mountain passes so they will not be able to take advantage of there outnumbering.

Heavily armoured knights in narrow and rocky mountain paths?
Just think about it :grin:

And Empire doesn't need outnumber we will kick ass with iron resolve and offcourse pigeon bombs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freedirtyneedles (Post 521687)
oh and the green knight will just keep coming back no matter how many cannonballs he blocks with his face....

Here come the pesticides, the green knight will look a lot more greener now :puke: <- :taunt:
And lead poisoning also affects plants...

Ascendant Valor 11-27-09 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nipolian (Post 521651)
One on one Brettonia would win but the empire has a lot of allies and so does Brettonia... -SNIP-

That doesn't correlate to the OP's question. The idea was to disinclude any and all outside forces. Besides, even if other factions were to be included on any and all levels, the Empire would still hold out longer than the Brettonians would. I doubt the Bretts would ever be able to withstand a Kislev-scaled assault like the Empire did. Nor are the Dwarven or High Elven empires comfortable in working with a faction that is just as, if not moreso, isolationist than even themselves.

On a strictly one against one basis, the Empire would win for a long variety of reasons. The first, and I hesitate the draw parallels between such a fictional world and our own, is the Empire's judicious use of gun powder. Historically speaking, we've seen how powerful a musket line is against any form of armor, even, in this case, Brettonian armor. The shear capacity for the Empire to field it's array of war machines of Nuln or any other providence alone is enough to do in the bulkhead of the Brettonian army - it's heavy cavalry.
Another factor, and one that has been mentioned already in this discussion, is the principle of relative population of the two factions. The Empire is far larger and more populated (in terms of military service-quality people). It can field a larger force far more rapidly than the Brettonians. It is much cheaper and easier to field a large unit of foot soldiers, such as halberdiers or spear men, than it is to field even a small unit of knights. All that it takes to go into putting a spear man to the field is a long stick with a pointy piece of metal and a slab of wood, maybe some nice-looking clothing. For a Knight, it takes a full suit of armor to be either handed down or custom forged, a lance, a steed of high quality and is well broken (it's an equestrian term, Google it), and any other Chivalrous accouterments that said knight would prefer to sport. Those two examples, mind you, represent a linchpin unit for each faction. It clearly makes sense that the Empire's infantry are easier to field (despite being fairly well trained) than the Brettonian knights (who are, individually, the greater warriors).

I could go on, but my point is clear at this point. Isolating the focus of the debate solely down to the forces to be mustered, the Empire would win. In game terms, I cannot say. But with history as a precedent and logic and a basis, we should be able to judge the Empire as the preferred victor.

I would also imagine tactics are more than worth noting, but those are so subjective that it's folly to bother including in a sensible argument. Who's to say that the Empire wouldn't love to see the heavy cavalry of the Bretts charge up a steep slope (a la Agincourt)? And who's to say that the Bretts wouldn't like a large, open, flat field to allow their great cavalry the opportunity to out-maneuver the vast hordes of the Empire (barring any intervention of the Knightly Orders)? This is all very, very subjective and it's easy to get ourselves caught in a cyclical debate of "Yeah, but if..." We'd clearly have to look elsewhere to establish a more respectable, though hardly definitive, answer to the OP's query. Hence why I mentioned the forces only.

Lord Justicar Gideon 11-27-09 11:14 AM

I voted for Bretonnia, but it depends on the scenario. Are we talking about a big, open battlefield, or the Empire invading Bretonnia?

The answer to the first is simple: Bretonnia. They'd close with the enemy far quicker than the Empire because, though the Empire does have some knights, even if they bring every Knightly Order to bear, Bretonnia will still have more knights. That's an indisputable fact. They may take casualties from arrows, pistols, handguns, magic etc, but remember that Bretonnians have the favour of the Lady, which is used as a means of stopping this unchivalrous behaviour from causing great harm. Not to mention the fact that their own magic can be used to heal/bolster/encourage them. Take the King and remove the Grail Knight limits, and watch as those experienced knights smash aside all and sundry.

If the Empire invades Bretonnia ... well, look at how it stands now. The Empire has tried before to expand past Axe Bite Pass (the only viable route into Bretonnia, unless the Empire wants to weary itself out by trudging over virtually impassable mountains to then fight a refreshed army) and failed. All the Bretonnians need to do is amass every knight, peasant, pegasi etc at the pass, and wait until Castle Montfort is destroyed, before charging in and dealing with the weakened army. We musn't forget that Castle Montfort has stood on it's own against Empire armies before, so backed by the full might of Bretonnia ... yeh.

Bretonnians might not hire mercenaries, and we might not have the technological advancements of the Empire (by choice, I might add) but that doesn't mean we're going to lie down easily. We have the blessing of the Lady to protect from such technology, and our Damsels can take any spell the Empire can, and most of all ... the Green Knight is immune to death, plague, magic etc in that he comes back time and time again, regardless. Watch him run riot!


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