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-   -   Chaos: Bolter, pistol, and ccw. = 2 attacks? (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/40k-rules-discussion/4307-chaos-bolter-pistol-ccw-%3D-2-attacks.html)

Galahad 01-09-08 08:14 AM

Bear in mind, unless you have special rules (like monstrous creature) you still only get to fire ONE weapon.

And if that weapon you fire is a Rapid Fire weapon (regardless of whether you fire one or two shots) then you may NOT charge that round. However, you could opt to fire your pistols instead and then charge (this is why new space marines like BA and DA get pistols and bolters).

However, if that weapon you fire is an Assault Weapon (like a meltagun) not only can you still charge, but you still get a bonus attack for having a pistol and chainsword. And if you fire your bolter and *get* charged, you also get a bonus attack.

The rules are pretty clear, and so is the intent. In this case they both happen to agree ;-)

And before anyone starts talking about whether or not it makes sense, remember these three terms: "Holster" "Scabbard" "Rifle Sling"

Further fun note: Chaos bikes no longer grant a bonus attack, but they no longer *deny* you an attack for having two weapons (and chaos bikers have pistols and swords), so they can drive a bike, fire its onboard weapons and still use both hands in combat.

SyNide 01-09-08 10:43 AM

Yes, chaos still gets +1 attack for having 2 ccws. and you don't have to choose which set of weapons you want, anyone who tells you otherwise is just sad that his army doesn't get it.

CyDoN 01-09-08 12:33 PM

so i can: Rapid Fire with my bolter then Assault and shoot with the pistol and slay with the chainsword with 2 CC attacks?

Does bolt pistol couts as a close combat weapon?

Asmodai 01-09-08 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyDoN (Post 53075)
so i can: Rapid Fire with my bolter then Assault and shoot with the pistol and slay with the chainsword with 2 CC attacks?

Does bolt pistol couts as a close combat weapon?

No, because if you rapid fire you can't assault.

Yes on the second question.

Galahad 01-09-08 02:49 PM

You can, however, fire your pistol once INSTEAD of your bolter and then charge into assault.

Or you could fire your bolter, stand still and *get* assaulted, and still use the pistol and chainsword in CC

It gives you more options, but it doesn't let you bypass the rules.

Bishop120 01-09-08 03:16 PM

Except the unspoken rule of 2 1Handers or 1 2Hander + 1 1Hander as far as weapons go. Makes chaos very flexible and better in HtH than Imperial marines. bahhh.. just ignore my Imperial jelousy of Chaos wargear.

bl0203 01-09-08 08:19 PM

What I don't understand is why they didn't give Blood Angels the CCW in their equipment. FLUFF wise you would think they would be equiped with CCW due to their nature. Is that asking to much?

Bishop120 01-09-08 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bl0203 (Post 53189)
What I don't understand is why they didn't give Blood Angels the CCW in their equipment. FLUFF wise you would think they would be equiped with CCW due to their nature. Is that asking to much?

Fluff wise ALL marines would have it in their equipment as well as BP, Bolter, Frag and Krack grenades. Heck even every imperial soldier would have a CCW (bayonet, combat knife, knife from their mess kit). GW have been murdering fluff these past couple years. EoT was the last decent bit of fluff Ive seen from them game wise.

Galahad 01-10-08 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop120 (Post 53103)
Except the unspoken rule of 2 1Handers or 1 2Hander + 1 1Hander as far as weapons go. Makes chaos very flexible and better in HtH than Imperial marines. bahhh.. just ignore my Imperial jelousy of Chaos wargear.

Except that it's not a rule, spoken or otherwise. And it never has been.
It is a rule that limits how many things you may purchase from the wargear list, but it is not, nor has it ever been a rule that limits how many weapons a model may carry or be equipped with.

As for BA, fluff wise BA have *always* been a very codex-adherent chapter. With the exception of a couple of special vehicles and a couple of special units, BA have always fielded straight, codex-style battle companies and units. The codex does not call for chainswords on tactical or devastator squads.

Remember, the red thirst and black rage is something the BA try to *resist*, not embrace. Tactical squads are meant to be flexable fire support, and dev squads are meant to be stationary firebases. The presence of a strong close combat option (chainswords) in either of these units would only serve as a temptation and a distraction for the brothers who are valiantly trying to resist their bloody urges. Chainswords would not help either of these squads do their job better and would only tempt them to abandon their post and leap into the fray.

It would be like giving a recovering drug addict a big jar of smack because fluff-wise, he always liked getting tweaked, even if it means he;s not doing his job right because of it.

Also note that chaos marines have the option of replacing their heavy weapons for special weapons, so that a CC-armed havoc squad is actually *good* (give them a couple flamers and meltaguns and put them in a rhino), meanwhile SM lack these options, so instead you;re dragging a bunch of heavy guns into assault where they become an expensive liability.

Bishop120 01-14-08 05:55 AM

Has anyone thought of the possibility that GW is going to change the way that CC works in 5th edition?? Possibly changing the way that attacks are calculated and such??

If you look through all the wargear descriptions in the new codexs there are only 3 types of weapons now... Heavy, Ranged, and CCWs. Pistols are listed under Ranged. If you look through unit descriptions it never specifies the type of weapons they are picking just certain weapons may replace certain other weapons. The units which are obviously HtH oriented have profiles which reflect that ergo Berserkers/Orks having 2A base. Now another possibilty is that they will say that if you HAVE a "close combat weapon" you get the extra attack. And that would also fit. All Im saying is that these new codexes allude (IMO) to a change in the way close combat is going to work in 5th edition.


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