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-   -   What happens when a weirdboy goes to ground? (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/40k-rules-discussion/42160-what-happens-when-weirdboy-goes-ground.html)

Culler 07-23-09 05:46 PM

What happens when a weirdboy goes to ground?
 
Hooray for rules changes making contradictory statements! The issue is thus:

Quote:

At the beginning of each Ork shooting phase, a Weirdboy must roll on the following table to find out which psychic power he must use that turn.
Under going to ground in the BRB it says that units that go to ground "can do nothing until the end of its following turn."

So here are 2 statements that are not optional. The weirdboy must attempt to use a psychic power of some sort and going to ground says that units which go to ground can do nothing. Does the codex override the core rules? Since the Ork codex came out before the 5th edition rules, I'm not sure.

Sebi 07-23-09 06:35 PM

Codex vs RB
Codex wins I say

Master_Caleb 07-23-09 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebi (Post 440458)
Codex vs RB
Codex wins I say

I'm with Sebi on this one. The codex overrules the BRB as is the proper chain of command. I couldn't imagine that the BRB would overrule in this case.

Thanks,

~MC

Culler 07-23-09 06:41 PM

I know in general the codex overrides the BRB but what with this not being an issue when the codex was written I wasn't sure.

Revelations 07-23-09 07:53 PM

Hmm... I'm questioning how you would make these two rules interact with each other. This reminds me of the Rage argument, since it requires you to always move to the closest enemy model, but you can't if you've went to ground.

I'm inclined to say that the Weird boy must roll on the table, but he may not be able to use the power. For example, if you were currently in Assault and you happened to get the ranged weapon power; you wouldn't be able to use it since a Core rule restricts you (can't shoot in assault).

Going to ground would prevent you from using certain powers; such as the shooting one, or *perhaps* even the Deepstrike one (although I'd like to see he simply teleports randomly but remains "grounded"), but others could still be used; Waaagh (even though he personally doesn't get to benefit from it) or the +Attack one if he gets assaulted.

The Codex is telling you that you can't avoid it, but it makes no mention of avoiding Core rules; in any case as I made examples of above. Just because he *has to*, doesn't mean he is *able to*. There would be the difference in my mind.

So no, I would rule it that you are subject to the ground rules unless otherwise stated. I do not see reason enough to grant you the benefit of going to ground without suffering the consequences.

Gog 07-23-09 09:15 PM

Id say he could on the basis of realisem, a Weirdboy is a lightnign rod for Waaagh energy, unlike other Psykers he cant choose or control the power it just goes BAM and happens, even if you are lieing in a ditch you cant stop a build up of pure Psykic energy bursting out, id say you roll on it however ranged attacks would not work on the theroy he fires it into the floor or off to the sky :wink:

Crimson_Chin 07-24-09 02:35 AM

Lies.

Codex wins, and the wierdboys powers work even if they're shooting ones. Why? Because they only "count as having fired a weapon".

The rules specifically notate "pick an enemy unit within LOS. If in range, that unit is automatically hit". The wierdboy doesn't even fire a weapon, he doesn't use a psychic shooting attack. It is, therefore, completely separate from the rules for them and occurs regardless of whether or not the unit has gone to ground.

Counts as having shot =/= shooting.

Culler 07-24-09 03:53 AM

Well, the conflict is in doing anything at all vs. not doing anything at all (as going to ground says you can't), and doing anything at all includes psychic shooting attacks, which I believe the weirdboy's abilities are (frazzle and zzap anyway.)

But codex wins does seem to be the general consensus in cases of conflict. It's just weird.

Sebi 07-24-09 08:20 AM

the frazzle and zzap are shooting attackes accoring to the FAQ btw.

Tim/Steve 07-24-09 08:52 AM

Wow, a page and no-one has yet done an anti... so I will.

I dont think he can use any psychic powers if pinned. Though this is hard to argue by rules; I would say that 'pinned' is a universal rule that doesnt allow ANYTHING to be done while under its effects, that the codex doesnt override it because it is not saying that teh weirdboy 'always' rolls at the start of the turn, simply that he must- In my mind the difference is that a 'must' is an action that you have to carry it out, if you are unable to do so you ignore it (see below).

I think that my position is basically decided by my being a space wolf- they have another rule which is a 'must' but which is often impossible and which no-one would try to argue that you can try to do anyway:
Quote:

Head-Strong: Blood claws must charge if one of their models is within 6" of the enemy, unless the pack is being lead by an Independent Character...
It being a "must" means I'm unable to shoot RF weapons (to carry out an action that stops me from being able to carry out the action), but I can run into 6" of the enemy (or disembark a moving rhino within 6") and obviously I can not charge- I am not fleet.
The rule gives the "only" exception, and yet there are others that are results of BRB rules which the codex doesnt overwrite.

While using other codeces to try to argue rules is fround on, this is not what Im trying to do- simply to show precident on the wording. If 'must' means that you yourself cannot do anything to stop being able to carry it out then I think the argument is more "can a weirdboy choose to go to ground?" (I would say no- codex doesnt override BRB, it simply means you cant use the relevent rule).
However, getting pinned is not optional and I would say that you would have to skip the weirdboy roll (it leads to non-sensical results... can you do x, y and z while pinned, do you get the power but cant use it, does shooting/DS while pinned end the pinning, ???).


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