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-   -   How to combat the "toys" Argument? (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/off-topic/33286-how-combat-toys-argument.html)

Lord Lucius 04-15-09 01:25 PM

actually...I agree admiralldick...for the most part,but what do you say about little shits who wont take no for an answer,I say forcibly remove them from the premisis

admiraldick 04-15-09 02:19 PM

there have become two strands in this thread; the original question - what do you do about people who bring your hobby into ill repute from within. and the question most people have answered - what do you do about people who mock your group from outside.

in a school situation, it is not hard to see what you do if there is someone from outside the group that really doesn't want to join in, but keeps attacking the group either verbally or physically. you invlove a teacher or staff member. its not your job as a student to be policing the school or even people's behavoir, and where possible you should be tolerant and accepting. however, where it is genuinely causing a problem it is the teachers responsibility to deal with poor behavior (as they would with any other club, group or society).

if your a staff member, then you should already know that its your job to defend clubs from unrulely students so you really shouldn't be asking the question.

The Son of Horus 04-15-09 02:30 PM

The way I've always made it out to be a more mature thing than it really is is by spinning it as a craft more than a game. When people pass by in the store and I'm painting, I place more emphasis on the "You build and paint your own army, and there's a game you can play with them... but it's mostly a modelling and painting thing" kind of explanation than the "In the grim darkness of the future, there are only plastic spacemen fighting on styrofoam terrain, with dice and soda cans and nerds at the controls."

Then again, I haven't gotten a game in in about two months (*twitches from withdrawl symptoms*) so lately, it actually -has- been more about the painting than the gaming.

Stella Cadente 04-15-09 02:50 PM

I love all these comments like "remove them by force, kick them out, punch em, beat them up" etc, it reminds you of how many people really don't live on planet earth anymore, especially when the original question is in a school environment, beyond retarded advice to defend a game of toys

Uncle spongebob 04-15-09 03:07 PM

well for one thing you can't because "yobs" or chavs or toe rags would be to thick or retarded to play it,because all they can do is knife people and make the place look messy! All you can do is tell them to get a job!!

Uncle spongebob 04-15-09 03:31 PM

The toys argument looking realisticly here, if they were toys they would be for 3 and up yeay old kids for gods sake! They just have somthing against creativity! And to combat these people just hold a competition with orbital bombardment turned off then they could not win!! Mwuaah

Master Kashnizel 04-15-09 08:54 PM

No they aren't toy soldiers they are tools-used-to-represent-soldiers-combating-one-another-in-a-combat-situation-such-as-in-a-war

HivefleetIngensus 04-15-09 10:39 PM

True, quite true. But I think the "focus" on the painting and assembling part seems quite reasonable.

But I still stand with my keep-out-of-school idea, but that is only because I go to a gangsta high school ( freakin' awesome place, love it there).

admiraldick 04-16-09 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Kashnizel (Post 362200)
No they aren't toy soldiers they are tools-used-to-represent-soldiers-combating-one-another-in-a-combat-situation-such-as-in-a-war

except of course they aren't tools in any sense of the word, but they are toys because their only purpose is for your personal entertainment and enjoyment.

trying to deny that the reason you have them is for fun is never going to convince anyone of anything. you clearly do not find this a chore, no matter how bizarrely seriously you take the game. and the more serious and 'unfun' you try and make it sound the more scorn you will reap from other people.

you wouldn't have an issue refering to your ipod, TV or even motorbike as a 'toy', without starting to foam at the mouth. so why get so annoyed when people call your little toy men what they are, toys. not everything that is a toy is for children, and everyone has toys of one sort or another.

being willing to accept that makes the whole hobby seem a lot more interesting than listening to a bunch of stuffy nobodies complain that you don't really understand what's going on even though they audiably make the noise of the guns when rolling dice.

Lord Lucius 04-16-09 08:49 AM

when you put it like admiral dick ,that ,your right ,they ARE just toys ,just like my bow or gun ,if you get enjoyment from it ,its a toy! dont bother actually countering the argument, just point out that a bike,ipod whatever is also a toy

Stella Cadente 04-16-09 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Kashnizel (Post 362200)
No they aren't toy soldiers they are tools-used-to-represent-soldiers-combating-one-another-in-a-combat-situation-such-as-in-a-war

you mean like green and grey TOY soldiers?

Master Kashnizel 04-18-09 12:30 AM

No I mean plastic pieces used to represent combat units in a war which in turn were used by military commanders to plan attacks, so these things have had some pretty important uses.

BlackTemplar93 04-18-09 01:06 AM

punch these heretics in the face and the burn 'em....well no but just play 40k...thats like halo only with miniatures(well not entirely but close enough:grin::grin: )and then they'll find gw games awesome as well(because they r awesome)

Toten 04-19-09 10:21 PM

I find it quite easy (might be that Im cheating with 6 feet, and a 235 pound weight to punch with).

But one of the most efficient ones I´ve had (also humiliating to the idiot whos confronting me with it) is "Well I atleast know how to wear my pants correctly", since at the school all the "cool" guys try to show of as much of their boxershorts as possible, which I find 100% idiotic.

If he´s one of them "hah u dont have a girlfriend" peeps, just tell them that you dont need a girl to use as a backup reason for being "so much better" than the other dude, that you find yourself much better than using your girlfriend as a reason to be better.

The absolutely best thing is to get them to be unable to answer, which also (depending on how stupid you know the other dude is) can simply be done with a "so what?", cuz they cant find a reason unless they´re smart enough to dig deep.

seandb 04-19-09 11:05 PM

I usually tell people they are not toys, but part of a game, like Risk on speed.

For some reason Risk is more socially acceptable, while Warhammer seems to gain some stigma.

or I tell them that they are modelled and painted and take skill, time and work like a model car/plane does. Which also seems to work. (I think it's more of the fact that they don't represent reality that bothers people)

Both of which are true and give W40K some respect!

DAvo001 04-20-09 12:04 PM

personaly i found that it was not worth the hasle, to try and get a game in during the pitiful lunch break i had at secondary school, save it for your friends house or the local store if you cant be arsed with the cunts at the door (p.s. loved the IQ below room temp tactic) (p.s.(again) i also found that if you tried to explain a small portion of the rules to one of them, they just formed a confused look on their face as they tried to handle the "big numbers" @[email protected])

World Eater XII 04-20-09 12:38 PM

crush their bones and eat their tasty souls!!

raverboi 04-20-09 12:48 PM

its easy as, witty comments include
"bitch please, these toys cost more then your house"
"its a brain thing, you wouldn't understand"
"why dont you go and chase more balls with your friends?"
"dont you have to be hiding in the bushes smoking?"
"this game requires the ability to count past 10"
making gangland signs, and acting like you are black, then having a good laugh also works

the "yea, and?" method works best. just say yes, if they call you a name, just go, yep and keep doing what you are doing

exclude hecklers, dont tell them anything this will make them intriged by the hobby
i know, its what happened to me >_< (though i happily never pretended to be black :))
it used to be a bad thing to have your pants pulled down, what the hell are they thinking?

Red Orc 04-20-09 01:18 PM

You can't seriously counteract the 'toys' argument, because as several people have pointed out, they are in fact toys. But so are Ferraris and hookers, and most teenage boys (and I assume it is teenage boys we're talking about?) aspire to them.

As for the person who's playing with 'army men' in the corner, I think the idea that you try to involve him in games is a good plan. Is this a "Warhammer club" or a "games club" you have? That might make a difference, I suppose, in terms of teacher reaction, but if it's a "Warhammer club" then, certainly, you have a point in the "what can we do with him?" stakes. Get him involved is the answer. You never know, he could be really into it if given the right encouragement. Not having him in the corner playing with cheap toys that require little skill and effort to use will possibly be good for establishing the 'serious' credentials of your toys...

Oh, and on the trousers-round-knees thing, while those of us of the older generation find it f***in' bizarre that guys want to show the world their pants (OK, for those who don't know, generally in Britain "pants" is what you wear under your trousers, not your trousers themselves, just in case I'm being confusing), perhaps it's like being proud of being a geek, or making fun of your own nerdiness? The nerd disarms the nerd-botherer by laughing at his own nerdiness, giving the nerd-botherer no ammunition. The boy-afraid-of-showing-his-pants pulls his own trousers down to avoid attack by a trouser-lowering attacker, quite possibly. OK, it's just a theory...

Ste 04-20-09 02:00 PM

There toys? if you can't handle the fact that people are going to forever rip the piss out of you. don't play it were prying eyes can watch and laugh? play it at home or at a local games store. i play the hobby and have for many years. im 18 and keep my hobby to myself and my friends that play it. i play at home and keep it to myself.
the end of hte arguement is they are toys? does it matter. if you enjoy playing warhammer then that should be it?

Concrete Hero 04-20-09 04:43 PM

Have a heavy one around for good measure. A fist full of Grey Knights will shut anyone up. Then there's the Furioso if you want to be really serious...

Jezlad 04-20-09 04:53 PM

Chief Librarian Beetroot the Fister, wielder of the big headed blue vein staff says he's not a toy and anyone that says so is lucky GW fucked up the Space Marine codex otherwise hed kick your ass!

FatBoyFat 04-20-09 06:52 PM

I've gotta be honest, I never had any trouble at school, happily admitted I played, but also led a pretty good social life, played rugby to a high standard for the school (sussex and south england champions, tours around wales and ireland), had a big group of friends and just generally had a bit of a laugh.
One of the guys gave me a few jokey comments just recently, so I actually showed him a few models and he very quickly changed his tune to being impressed.

So my advice, don't be known as the kid who plays warhammer and calls everyone else stupid, be known as the kid who is "friendly, pleasant, good at something he does, be it sport, sing, dance, up for a laugh oh and he plays with toy soldiers, but thats allright"

Ste 04-21-09 07:01 PM

combat it with a big pointy stick!

Dafistofmork 04-21-09 07:59 PM

failing that, a baneblade-the only use for one!

Winst0n 04-21-09 08:17 PM

I'm in many school activities, I'm even going to the drill teams end of the year banquet. but i don't try and hide my love for WarHammer. if your proud but not hostile of the hobbies you do then most people will leave you alone. i hang out with "jocks" a lot in class and I've rarely been hassled about warhammer.:victory: remember i live in Texas [the big one close to Mexico for all you Europeans] and everything here is god and football.

as for the fat kid shouting bang bang. you can video it and then video yourselves playing and show everyone the difference. also send me the video of tubby shouting bang i need a laugh.:laugh:

Red Orc 04-21-09 08:22 PM

Some of us shout "ee-yow! dakka-dakka-dakka-KRUMP! 'What's that Captain Arglebargle? You've had your ass blown off? Oh dear dear me...' NYooW! g-SHAAAH! fooo... fo-fooo..." while we're actually playing 40k though, to be fair. The main difference between army men and 40k is that we have rulers.

General. Gray Wolf 04-21-09 08:45 PM

Just ignore them they'll get board and move on:).

admiraldick 04-22-09 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winst0n (Post 367703)
i live in Texas [the big one close to Mexico for all you Europeans]

ah, i see what you've done there. realising that the average European's grasp of geography (even American geography) is better than the average US citizen's grasp of geography, you've deliberately confused where Europe is; making the reader think that you think its one of the southern States presumably, and thus that they wouldn't really understand such things. though of course the irony of the joke is that you (as the writer) have intentionally displayed a lack of knowledge embedded into your accusation. very clever.

that or unintentionally stupid.:grin:

Winst0n 04-22-09 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by admiraldick (Post 368342)
ah, i see what you've done there. realising that the average European's grasp of geography (even American geography) is better than the average US citizen's grasp of geography, you've deliberately confused where Europe is; making the reader think that you think its one of the southern States presumably, and thus that they wouldn't really understand such things. though of course the irony of the joke is that you (as the writer) have intentionally displayed a lack of knowledge embedded into your accusation. very clever.

that or unintentionally stupid.:grin:


unintentionally stupid i think but if you want to say i'm clever fine by me.:ok:

Toten 04-22-09 09:48 PM

You can always ask them if they want to play a game against you, you own them hard, and still ask them if they think the game is stupid (that is actually if the people aint jacked-up wangstas who think theyre cool being retarded).

Ignoring them is also one of the most efficient, but mr. Obvious is obvious, if they get that one, youre getting somewhere, if not, well neither gains any points over the other.

Some here "jokingly" tells you to smack em down, but why bother risking the damage to your hands that you paint with?
"Youre not worthy of soiling my paint hands." <-- Bloody fun to say (Ive done the version that "You aint worthy of beating up, I find more of a challenge controlling my rage", and its EFFECTIVE)

Fire Warrior 07 07-20-09 07:44 PM

I know the army men boy. He called me a Warhammer nerd, even though he is too idiotic to get a real army.

DeathJester921 07-20-09 10:03 PM

Heres an idea. if someone that likes to rag on Warhammer, tell the manager at the front to say this when ever the guys walk in again.

"Attention GW shoppers, the average IQ in the room has just dropped below room temperature. You can now thank him *manager points to the person) with a boot to the nads."

col44mag 07-21-09 01:26 AM

I was the captain of the wrestling and football team so ppl never messed with me. I was always a really good artist so ppl saw it as me futhering my horizons. used to paint them in art class for credit:biggrin:

DeathJester921 07-21-09 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by col44mag (Post 438428)
I was the captain of the wrestling and football team so ppl never messed with me. I was always a really good artist so ppl saw it as me futhering my horizons. used to paint them in art class for credit:biggrin:

you used to paint 40K in art class? like on paper or the actual models? sweet either way.

Rayza 07-21-09 11:05 AM

best comeback would be

hey you shut up

no comeback lmao

col44mag 07-21-09 11:45 AM

The models:victory:I also did alot of drawlings of warhammer and warhammerish things. But if anyone said anything i'd just say you lack both the intellect and skill to accomplish any such art form, and if your looking for an ass beating wait till i wash my brush to FUCK YOU UP!!!! never did have a problem though

normtheunsavoury 07-21-09 11:59 AM

The problem with people taking the piss about you playing with toy soldiers is the fact that you play with toy soldiers. It's the same with people who play D&D or Vampire, they are still playing Cops and Robbers, they just have more rules.
It's the same as when I first joined Heresy there was a thread about why do people think gamers are nerds, because they are!
I very nearly missed the whole RPG plastic spacemen bandwagon and was very nearly on the other side, laughing at the nerdy kids funny games. My mates got me interested in the hobby and I've never looked back.
We had a club at school but were lucky enough to have it held after school and by a teacher who was also an avid gamer.
People don't like things that are either different or hard to understand but that's part of the allure of things like 40K, it makes people feel special that they have something that the majority of people don't understand.
A good idea might be to also try and get your teacher invoved in a few games, just so she also understands whats going on, or maybe she will then look for a teacher who is more likely to show an interest. Help out the kids that don't understand the club, give them a hand and they will stop turning up with bags of Army Men or making strange shooty noises in the corner.
As for the kids that take the piss, either ignore them or do something about it, I wouldn't suggest making smart comments, it just makes you look even more nerdy and will probably result in taking a kicking!
Have a chat with your form tutor, head of year or even the head teacher, see if you can have the club after school, when you have the place to yourselves. As long as all the kids parents agree then I can't see it being a problem. We ran ours after school and the only problems we ever got was from the God bothering wood work teacher who thought we were summoning demons and sacrificing first years.

Another thing to think about would be an open door policy, if people are interested then they can come along, play a game and see what they think. It worked for us, by the time I left school the gaming club was the biggest school club, even bigger than the football and rugby teams. Being elitist about things just rubs people up the wrong way and leads to bad feeling.
Give them the chance to understand the game or the craft involved in the hobby and they might cut you some slack.
Some people will always be arseholes but theres probably more interest at your school than you think. Another thing to consider is there is strength in numbers, once you get a couple of the "trendy" kids involved you will get an easier time and have a bigger club.

Cole Deschain 07-21-09 07:48 PM

How do you coutneract the notiont that they're toys?

Don't.

Embrace it.

"Hell yes, I play with toy soldiers. So?"

DeathJester921 07-21-09 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by col44mag (Post 438667)
The models:victory:I also did alot of drawlings of warhammer and warhammerish things. But if anyone said anything i'd just say you lack both the intellect and skill to accomplish any such art form, and if your looking for an ass beating wait till i wash my brush to FUCK YOU UP!!!! never did have a problem though


cool dude. do you still have any of the pictures?


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