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-   -   About the shaman origin (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/general-40k/220967-about-shaman-origin.html)

Justcause12345# 09-10-18 11:19 AM

About the shaman origin
 
Even ignoring my other thread where I gave links to Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned, Lexicanum cites the book for the shaman origin.








Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned is cited for the shaman origin at the bottom of the Emperor's Lexicanum page with the other cited sources. I have Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness and Realm of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned as Christmas presents. I saw someone named Prince Endymion on here say the shaman origin is a theory that was not published anywhere at all. If he is still here, then I take it you haven't followed 40k since 1st Edition Rogue Trader or own stuff from the first edition of 40k? Its alright. But do your research (if you are still here) before saying that. The lore of 1st Edition Rogue Trader was awesome.



https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WARHAMMER...-/382270144333

https://www.amazon.com/Warhammer-40-.../dp/1869893239

https://spikeybits.com/2018/01/nurgl...-of-chaos.html

https://spikeybits.com/2018/01/nurgl...-of-chaos.html

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/...he-damned.html




darkreever 09-10-18 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justcause12345# (Post 2444319)
then I take it you haven't followed 40k since 1st Edition Rogue Trader or own stuff from the first edition of 40k? Its alright. But do your research (if you are still here) before saying that.

I neither own things from the days of rogue trader nor have I ever played first edition (or second edition for that matter.) Not everyone has, in fact fewer and fewer people will have met either of those criteria when it comes to 40k. These days the shaman origin is hazy and seems to be a bit left in the dust by GW.

Justcause12345# 09-10-18 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkreever (Post 2444321)
I neither own things from the days of rogue trader nor have I ever played first edition (or second edition for that matter.) Not everyone has, in fact fewer and fewer people will have met either of those criteria when it comes to 40k. These days the shaman origin is hazy and seems to be a bit left in the dust by GW.


Are you Endymion? The shaman origin was printed in 1st Edition Rogue Trader.

darkreever 09-11-18 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justcause12345# (Post 2444331)
Are you Endymion? The shaman origin was printed in 1st Edition Rogue Trader.

What? No I'm not.


I know that the shaman origin was printed in first edition, you've said it repeatedly. Did you actually read what I wrote? Its been nearly three decades since the shaman origin was created, and unless I'm mistaken it was never brought into further editions since then.

Justcause12345# 09-11-18 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkreever (Post 2444337)
What? No I'm not.


I know that the shaman origin was printed in first edition, you've said it repeatedly. Did you actually read what I wrote? Its been nearly three decades since the shaman origin was created, and unless I'm mistaken it was never brought into further editions since then.


Alright. But why did Endymion say that? Was he too young to know about the lore from 1st Edition Rogue Trader? I wouldn't be surprised if it was older than him.

Khorne's Fist 09-11-18 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justcause12345# (Post 2444339)
Alright. But why did Endymion say that? Was he too young to know about the lore from 1st Edition Rogue Trader. I wouldn't be surprised if it was older than him.

Many things from RT have been retconned in the editions since then, so using those books as a source of up to date canon is a flawed approach.

Justcause12345# 09-11-18 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist (Post 2444343)
Many things from RT have been retconned in the editions since then, so using those books as a source of up to date canon is a flawed approach.



There is no canon. ADB has said this on Reddit. and so have many other authors.

Khorne's Fist 09-12-18 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justcause12345# (Post 2444349)
There is no canon. ADB has said this on Reddit. and so have many other authors.

Ok mate, you know best. You're obviously not interested in starting an actual discussion, preferring to loudly correct perceived errors in random long dead threads, so good luck with that.

Justcause12345# 09-12-18 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist (Post 2444357)
Ok mate, you know best. You're obviously not interested in starting an actual discussion, preferring to loudly correct perceived errors in random long dead threads, so good luck with that.



Sorry if I came off as a jerk. What can we discuss? I was saying Endymion was wrong. The shaman origin was printed in 1st Edition Rogue Trader.

Serpion5 09-12-18 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justcause12345# (Post 2444361)
Sorry if I came off as a jerk. What can we discuss? I was saying Endymion was wrong. The shaman origin was printed in 1st Edition Rogue Trader.


There's no discussion to be had if you're not willing to budge on this. Long standing lore in second and third edition codexes has been retconned in more recent editions, stories told in codexes are sometimes contradicted by novels, and novels occasionally completely get the lore wrong. To claim something is canon simply because it existed in the first edition is folly, especially considering it has never been mentioned since.



Trying to pin specific things down as canon gets harder the further back the lore goes, especially given the amount of things that have changed since then. Just as a few examples, there were no mentions of Perpetuals in earlier editions, and the lore regarding Living Saints was much less fleshed out. The role the necrons had in the wider setting has been thrown into question, and the very nature of the Warp itself has been altered with the introduction of the material called Blackstone just this edition.



The Emperor could simply be a powerful psyker and a perpetual for all we know. He could be using Chaos Himself. He could be manipulating Blackstone somehow. There simply isn't enough confirmed anymore to say with absolute clarity that the Shaman Origin is canon, even if it is still cited on pages like Lexicanum.



And given that many younger/newer players aren't even aware of the older lore, trying to assert it is more or less pointless.


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