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-   -   Help for Ultramarines v Admech (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/40k-tactics/220811-help-ultramarines-v-admech.html)

Mofoman78 06-11-18 04:44 PM

Help for Ultramarines v Admech
 
I have an Ultramarines army and I play my friend regularly and he has Ad Mech. He has beaten me 4 times on the trot and and one occasion has even tabled me. I played him last week with an army consisting of:

HQ
Calgar - 200
Lieutenant - 74

Troop
Tactical - 178
Intercessor - 90
Intercessor - 90

Elite
Terminator - 235
Venerable - 197

Fast Attack
Inceptor - 180

Spearhead

HQ
Chronus - 35

Hvy
Hellblaster - 165
Predator - 192
Landraider - 314

I think my problem is that I keep trying to take him on in a shoot out and I’m constantly coming up second best due to his invuln saves.

If any one can help me with any tactics or recommend any models that will do the business I would be very grateful because I would just love to wipe that smug grin off of his face

Old Man78 06-11-18 09:58 PM

Can you throw up what force your opponents usually uses, it would help in giving you advice. Space marines are good at shooting but lack numbers in a toe to toe shoot out.

I like twin auto cannon dreadnought, very good range and hit hard with plenty of dice, good force multipliers also twin kheres contemptors.

Also what tactics are you using? Deep striking shooty termies in the rear as well drop pods

Mofoman78 06-12-18 05:17 AM

I can’t remember exactly what he has but it was 2 battalions with Cawl, Tech Priest Dominus as his 2 main HQs. Troops was 6 5?man skitari squads. 2 squads of Robots (4 total). 2 Dunecrawlers with neutron lasers that just killed me. 10 electro priests , 3 breachers and 5 Sicarian Infiltrators. Think that’s it.

At present I’m just kitting my army out with as many lascannons as possible to take out his heavy armour whilst using characters to buff the roles. I find that unless I destroy either one Dunecrawler or 1 squad of robots during turn 1 if I go first I really struggle. Especially with is invulnerable saves. Last time he deployed 1 Dunecrawler and One Squad of robots plus two squads of on either flank. I deployed my Pedator (with Cronus) my venerable, one squad of Primaris and a lieutenant to go up that flank. The hung in till about turn three but I couldn’t get the rolls to beat the Dunecrawler. I did manage to take out the robots though. A Also deep strike the Terminators on the right but the skitari kept them wrapped up for a couple of turns.

On the Left Flank is where it went horribly wrong. My hellblasters didn’t make a dent during turn one which I put down to bad throws (5 hits on super charge followed by 4 ones and a two). They then got massacred by the robots (using the strategm) that lets them fire twice. This cause me to hide Calgar and the other squad of Primaris behind a building only to fall into a trap of his deep striking Sicarian Infiltrators. The Landraider got taken out in turn 1 by three neutron laser hits.

That was all she wrote.

Old Man78 06-12-18 09:09 PM

As a 40k dabbler I can't offer much sage and true wisdom, but if the raider is not lasting long as a bullet magnet maybe ditch it for another Las predator or a couple of razor backs with twin assault cannons to saturate the dune crawler. What are your terminators armed with? Maybe increase the squad size and pack in 2 cyclone missile launchers. Maybe try fit in some sternguard for some decent infantry fire power, or even speeders with H.Bs and typhoon launchers, the more saves he has to make the more he's gonna fail. Also, take a good look at the redemptor dreadnought when armed with a macro plasma incinerator

The dune crawler packs an awful punch for the price, i dont envy fighting 2. If placing a crawler on each flank is his usual trick, try playing a refused flank and place most of your units on one side of the board deep strike the termies and maybe drop pod the tac squad/stern guard and meteoric decent the inceptors too, hopefully you can isolate and cut up one part of his army leaving the other side with little to do. As I said I'm a dabbler only, but hopefully I've got some sense for you to get some ideas from

darkreever 06-12-18 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443519)
I canít remember exactly what he has but it was 2 battalions with Cawl, Tech Priest Dominus as his 2 main HQs.

Keep in mind if he has no other HQ's than his list may very well not be legal. Each battalion must have two HQ's.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443519)
Troops was 6 5?man skitari squads. 2 squads of Robots (4 total). 2 Dunecrawlers with neutron lasers that just killed me. 10 electro priests , 3 breachers and 5 Sicarian Infiltrators. Think thatís it.

That would pretty much have to be it, beyond needing two more HQ's this is around 1900 points worth of stuff without any upgrades (beyond the neutron lasers.)



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443519)
At present Iím just kitting my army out with as many lascannons as possible to take out his heavy armour whilst using characters to buff the roles. I find that unless I destroy either one Dunecrawler or 1 squad of robots during turn 1 if I go first I really struggle.

Sounds like you need to focus on overwhelming firepower and controlling fire lanes.


That being said, hellblasters, super charged plasma, melta weapons, and anything that can do a flat 2-3 damage are best.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443519)
Especially with is invulnerable saves.

Barring any canticles that improve invulnerable saves, his army is only rocking ++5 and ++6 saves. Now if he is using the Lucius forgeworld dogma than he gets to treat -1 ap weapons as 0 ap, but that has no bearing on invulnerable saves.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443519)
Last time he deployed 1 Dunecrawler and One Squad of robots plus two squads of on either flank.

That actually sounds like really bad deployment for the dunecrawlers, since they would get to reroll saves of 1 when close together. Also by doing that he cannot guarantee that both groups will be able to shoot at stuff, unless you both play on a fairly open board.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443519)
I deployed my Pedator (with Cronus)

This part of your list is actually illegal. Chronus's vehicle needs to be purchased separate to that predator you've taken. So that detachment would need another heavy support choice if he's going in the predator.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443519)
The Landraider got taken out in turn 1 by three neutron laser hits.

Were the neutron lasers the only thing that damaged your land raider? Because if yes those were some really lucky damage roles; near perfect in fact. To burn through all 16 wounds.


Could you flesh out your list a bit more, that way we can get an idea of what your loadouts are. By the way are you using the codex or the index?

Mofoman78 06-13-18 08:41 AM

Thanks guys. Terminators are armed with thunder hammers and shields. Going to purchase a redemptor soon. Hopefully it will help. Like the idea of the flanking strategy.

Can’t remember exactly what he had as his other HQs. Pretty sure it was to more Dominus. Old models though. Pretty sure that was his entire list.

Apologies for the ignorance but what do you mean by firing lanes?

Didn’t know that about Chronus. What i’ll Do is slot him into HQ (in the Predator) and just run a Battalion.

Yeah he was as lucky as f#%k. Got three hits and wounds in, I failed all my saves and he then rolled 2 6s and a 4. The audacity!!

Thanks again

darkreever 06-13-18 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443535)
Thanks guys. Terminators are armed with thunder hammers and shields.

Ok, but what about the rest of the list? What does the tactical squad have? The predator? The dreadnought?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443535)
Going to purchase a redemptor soon.

Keep in mind that it appears you are not using the codex for this, so its going to be harder for us to help you what with the codex being available. (For example I'm assuming that the list you put up here is the normal lascannon/heavy bolter land raider. That model is around 360 points.)



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443535)
Canít remember exactly what he had as his other HQs. Pretty sure it was to more Dominus. Old models though. Pretty sure that was his entire list.

I'm guessing probably two tech priests, his list is nearly at 1900 points and two of those would run under 100 points.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443535)
Apologies for the ignorance but what do you mean by firing lanes?

Think of them along the lines of a hallway, you may know there is something else nearby but you cant see it in order to aim/get an accurate shot. (Line of sight blocking terrain.)


Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443535)
Yeah he was as lucky as f#%k. Got three hits and wounds in, I failed all my saves and he then rolled 2 6s and a 4. The audacity!!

Lucky as fuck is definitely one way of putting it.

Mofoman78 06-13-18 07:43 PM

Tactical Squad has a sergeant with grab pistol/chainsword, multi Melta and a plasma gun. Predator is fully equipped with lascannons. Dreadnaught has a twin lascannon and fist/hvy flamer. Thinking of equipping the Assault Cannonin future to give myself more shots and make him use more saves

I am using the codex on my iPad to put my lists together but taking the index as a reference guide for the game. Landraider that i’m Using is the crusade with twin hurricane bolters, twin assault cannon and multi Melta.

He is the jammiest fucker in the world!!

Old Man78 06-13-18 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mofoman78 (Post 2443539)
He is the jammiest fucker in the world!!

Try changing the dice too pal!

darkreever 06-13-18 10:48 PM

Perhaps give this a thought:


Retains both detachments, and makes it a bit tougher for the crusader to miss.


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