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-   -   8th Ed 40k is fantastic (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/general-40k/216489-8th-ed-40k-fantastic.html)

Serpion5 06-24-17 11:07 AM

8th Ed 40k is fantastic
 
Had my first game of 40k 8th ed today against my younger brother. 2k points a side, my tyranid swarm facing off against his various Imperial forces. The game was a veritable bloodbath, ending in a decisive victory in his favour due mostly to the fact that in a kill points mission the swarm had far more units to lose. Regardless, I found the game every bit as enjoyable as previous editions and I feel the mechanics work far better than the preceding version of the game.

I also learned a number of things that will help me in future games.

1: Synapse is important! If you play bugs, do NOT let your little critters run around unattended. They will be gone in a flash.

2: Stratagems and Command Points can make or break your attack or defence. Load up on them and avoid using auxiliary detachments if possible.

3: The new AP system is a phenomenal addition to the game and a vast improvement over the AP system of 7th. Previously, tyranids found Custodes to be nigh unkillable. Today? My broodlord handled two of them on his own, and the remaining three were brought low by a tyranid prime and a zoanthrope respectively.

4: The lack of universal rules relating to unit types will have a huge impact on how models will be equipped. I know a lot of people with hive tyrants toting two sets of brainleech devourers. Previously these tyrants could hold their own in cc due to being monstrous creatures. Now? They have nothing to affect the armour saves of their enemies in combat.

5: Psykers are somewhat overrated. Smite isn't really scary and the buffs I've seen so far aren't all that groundbreaking. The psychic phase remains important but won't be as heavy for most armies out there. My brother managed a firm win despite having no psykers at all.

6: The ability to divide fire within units is fantastic, but also a thing to be aware of. When my warriors were peppering a tactical squad with devourer fire, my brother was not expecting the unit's venom cannon to round on his dreadnought. A similar nasty surprise awaited me next turn, involving a grav cannon and my carnifex...

7: Tervigons have gotten amazingly better. :grin:

DeathKlokk 06-24-17 01:20 PM

I played my first game Thursday night. It was really good to be playing again (I bowed out of most of sixth/seventh). I played my Legion of Brass (Khorne CSM) against a kind of newbs marines. All he had left at the end were some flyers and one term captain! I lost a Prince and a rhino and one dread perhaps. Berserkers are the TITS!

darkreever 06-24-17 09:33 PM

Played my first several games this week, loving how fast games can be. Think in the first day we got five games in four hours; sure they were all under 1k but when is the last time a bunch of people still learning or relearning the rules got games done, correctly I will add, that quickly?

Moonschwine 06-27-17 06:34 PM

Really enjoyed the system.

The new combat fight system is also amazing. There is a certain tactical element to it.

The new AP system is a little hard to get my head into - A friend of ours deployed a Relic Dreadnought from Forgeworld and it effectively held up two armies worth of miniatures in a single combat. My Terminator lord with a chain-fist then went in and proceeded to do zero damage then immediately die. It was funny but very very frustrating as things like dreads can tie up units far too easily.

Frustration was on hand-writing a list. The layout of the Index Chaos was, frankly infuriating, as Is buying a unit for a cost only to then have to add in his basic wargear. I understand why this is the choice though because it allows tweaking on a per-item basis rather than unit/model.

Some rules are also written quite strange - I had several instances where I got to 'reroll missed' dice but as worded you do so before the bonuses are added, but from bonuses technically I would have 'hit'. We ended up house ruling that a 'Miss' was after dice were calculated but the reroll didn't apply your bonuses; it worked ok tbh as it effectively meant everything effectively got 'Reroll 1's'.

For Chaos Astartes:

Deamon Princes are too soft and / or big targets. 3+ isn't enough to deal with combats these days, and 8 wounds is way too low because although you shrug off small arms, even moderately armed units just eat half your health.
D6 Damage weapons are insane as well.
I believe that Slaanesh is going to be a go-to this game if the meta remains Imperial. Icon of Excess is really useful.
Khorne Berzerkers finally have value again.
Terminator armour is incredibly useful. 2+ actually has it's place again!

Serpion5 06-28-17 08:35 AM

I'll be having another game this weekend, maybe even two. So I'll be back to this thread after that with more wisdom and experience to share.

DeathKlokk 06-29-17 12:04 PM

I'm playing tonight if I get off work early enough.

Serpion5 07-01-17 08:03 AM

Another game and another loss, but also another learning experience.

I faced my brother again, he used the same list as before against a heavily tweaked list of mine.

Once again I was able to easily demolish the Custodes, this time with heavy fire from an Exocrine and a trio of Hive Guard. Assassins once again failed to have any severe impact, with the Eversor fluffing horribly while the vindicare spent four turns trying to kill my broodlord.

I almost took out Guilleman himself, tempting him to charge out from his own lines in an attempt to slay one of my hive tyrants. The tyrant survived (barely) by virtue of his invulnerable save and took three wounds off the primarch with one lucky swing. In my following turn I had the tyrant fall back, leaving Guilleman exposed to the same hail of fire that had killed his bodyguards earlier. He survived with two wounds, losing another to a flurry of genestealer strikes before falling back himself.

The game outcome was much like before. Despite my army's vastly improved performance, my swarm simply had far more units to lose. One more game against the forces of Chaos tomorrow, and then I'll begin trying out some necron lists. :good:

Kharn The Complainer 07-02-17 07:54 PM

As Moonschwine said, I am struggling to get my head around the AP system. I haven't played a game yet as I'm waiting for my friend to assemble his army. I'm sure it'll all make more sense once we get a game going.

Serpion5 07-03-17 06:41 AM

Another game, and finally a win!

Played a friend's Chaos list, Chaos Space Marines of Khorne and Daemons of Khorne. Old One Eye made a charge against a unit of bloodcrushers and wiped every single one of the bastards out in that same round. :shok:

His Flying Daemon Prince dealt the deathblow to one of my tyrants and my harpy, and did significant damage to the second tyrant before a squad champion finished it off. Old One Eye was eventually cut down by terminators which went on to be the last marines standing, adding a broodlord and a swarm of gaunts to their kill count before the game was done.

Once more the real stars of my list were the Hive Guard and the Exocrine. Multiple damage, high strength and good AP weapons means not much is left unscathed once these guys let loose. If I ever get back into the tournament scene, I expect to see a lot of them among tyranid lists. It was the Hive Guard who really saved me, bringing down a unit of bloodletters in the early turns and then felling the daemon prince before he could get too far forward. Not that the exocrine didn't pull his weight. A helbrute, a squad of marines and the predator were all finished or diminished by him over the course of the game.

Serpion5 07-09-17 06:18 AM

Two more games, using necrons this time. Even the basic gauss weapon carried by the necron warrior has an ap value of -1, and the gauss weapons carried by immortals are ap -2. So it's a fair assumption that I was pretty confident of doing some heavy damage in these games.

And I did, but so did my opponent's assault cannons. All seven of them. It came down to my first opponent losing all of his infantry but a character and a diminished squad, but his razorbacks cleaned up everything I had in return.

Second game was grey knights and a similar story. His infantry were all but obliterated, taking out a number of necrons in return but it was the autocannons on his dreadnoughts that took out my heavier units and prevented me from hitting back just as hard.


I have noticed that every Imperial Character model I've faced has a bubble effect of buffing nearby units. Guilleman, captains, lieutenants, chaplains and grandmasters. All of them affect all nearby units. Meanwhile, Xenos characters such as my necron lords and overlords, Tyrant and broodlord only seem able to buff one unit at a time. I don't wanna seem sour about it but I'm SENSING SOME FAVOURITISM HERE GW. :threaten:

darkreever 07-09-17 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 2416626)
Xenos characters such as my necron lords and overlords, Tyrant and broodlord only seem able to buff one unit at a time.

The broodlord and Necron lord bubble abilities can be used on multiple units in a given turn. The overlord ability 'my will be done' is one of the extremely few abilities that can only be used on a single unit a turn.

Serpion5 07-10-17 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkreever (Post 2416650)
The broodlord and Necron lord bubble abilities can be used on multiple units in a given turn. The overlord ability 'my will be done' is one of the extremely few abilities that can only be used on a single unit a turn.

Aye, but their abilities are too circumstantial. Realistically the necron lord's reroll to my morale is almost never going to be a problem, as necron units tend to be small and resilient enough to either pass the test or they'll be wiped out anyway. And the broodlord is great with genestealers but after multiple games I've had just as much luck splitting them up.

Captains and lieutenants give a blanket reroll to attacks to all units nearby. I've felt firsthand how devastating that can be, especially when the bastards work together. Three squads laying on the hurt with rerolls, plus the guns on the characters themselves. Any of my Overlords can only buff a single unit each. What the standard lord offers just doesn't appeal compared to that.

Kharn The Complainer 08-24-17 07:53 PM

My friend and I finally found time to play a game. We really enjoyed the new rules and found that after a slow first and second round, we got the hang of it quickly.
I was destroying his death guard army nicely, until his Lord of Contagion killed my Captain in a single round of combat. He scored 3 wounds and I failed to save any of them. If we were playing it right, the Lord of Contagion does 3 damage on each wound, so it killed my Captain outright.
That tipped the casualty points in his favour and we called it a day to get lunch. That horrible noxious cloud shit that the Lord of Contagion has is also evil. On a +4 you cause 1 mortal wound on a model! I mean, wtf?

ntaw 08-25-17 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kharn The Complainer (Post 2424938)
He scored 3 wounds and I failed to save any of them. If we were playing it right, the Lord of Contagion does 3 damage on each wound, so it killed my Captain outright.

You played it correctly, high damage weapons are a real threat.

Serpion5 08-25-17 12:47 PM

The monstrous scything talons on a hive tyrant do 3 wounds, and the massive scything talons on the tervigon and trygon do d6.

So on a good (or bad) day, the tervigon will slay a character with one attack. That shit never happened in the older editions. :laugh:

There is a definite strategic element to choosing your targets now, but still room for a lot of lols and fuckery. I like that.

Trump 08-25-17 06:36 PM

What's with super charging plasma weapons? as though people are going to risk their lives just to shoot an opponent?

Shandathe 08-26-17 12:09 AM

Aside from the fact that it lifts plasma strength, it outright doubles damage, so it's fantastic against multi-wound models (Primaris marines, Terminators, vehicles). If these happen to improve your odds of killing things, it may well be worth it. Plasma AP means wounds are likely to STICK.

Example 1: Devastator Squad, 4 Plasma Cannons. For 'normal' plasma strength goes from 7 to 8... so wounds T4 on 2+ instead of 3+, and it improves your odds on T7/8 vehicles as well. Potential damage with average number of shots goes from 8 (4 x 2 x 1) to 16 (4 x 2 x 2).
Example 2: A squad of 10 Hellblasters can potentially pump out a rather fantastic 40 wounds a turn instead of 20.

As you only blow yourself up on a 1 (unless you're taking negative To Hit modifiers - and if you do, DON'T supercharge), you can mitigate the risk with various leaders and abilities that allow rerolls of Hit rolls of 1, such as the Space Marine Captain or Astra Militarum "Take Aim!" order. Given that missing plasma is a giant waste, these are useful enough even when you are NOT supercharging, so this isn't much of a cost.

scscofield 09-10-17 12:20 AM

So I dusted my Space Wolves off the other night for the first time since the Stormclaw set came out. Back in 5th ed I loved walkers but when 6th hit they got shelved because of how easy they died. Friday night I fielded Bjorn, Murderfang, and the Axe/Storm Shield Ven Dread. They all three were amazing in terms of performance. The changes from Hull Points to high toughness with wounds is awesome. They are quite durable now and they continue to perform well even as they take wounds since they do not have degrading profiles. Makes me wish I had a bunch of Ork walkers to go with my Orks.

Old Man78 05-28-18 11:15 PM

Only recently got 8th rules and new marine codex, to be honest I was initially worried that some things were overly simplified and that the points system was off but after a couple of read throughs and watching some video battle reports it actually looks pretty slick and really customisable. It has definitely spurred me to dig into the sprue pile and stop being a 40k dabbler and get to being a 40k groupie!


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