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-   -   1850pts Blood Angels 'steel rain' (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/space-marine-army-lists/211985-1850pts-blood-angels-steel-rain.html)

kiro the avenger! 01-08-17 04:52 PM

1850pts Blood Angels 'steel rain'
 
So the aim of the game is everything deep strikes, drop pods and jump packs are best. So being totally optimum obviously isn't the big deal, but being relegated to toilet paper is never fun

+ Arch Angels Orbital Intervention Force +

2x 5 man Assault Terminator squads
- 5x TH/SS

5 man Assault Terminator squad
- 5x Lightning claws

These guys will each borrow a drop pod, Since that will allow accurate turn 1 charges on any unit/vehicle I choose

+ Baal Strike Force +
Death Company Chaplain

10 man Tactical squad
- Heavy flamer
- Flamer
- 2x Hand flamers
Drop pod
Combat squad into the 5 bolters, and 2 bolts+pyros. Pyro's burn stuff.

5 man Tactical squad
- Heavy flamer
- 2x Hand flamers
Drop pod
These guy's kind of like the 'pyro' half of the first Tacticals, but I admit they're here more to fill out a second troop slot and give the odd-numbered pod.

8 man Death Company squad
- 6x Bolt pistol + chainswords
- 2x Boltgun + powerfists
Drop pod
Drop in, rip a squad limb from limb, with the help of the Chaplain

10 man Sternguard squad
- 10x Combi-plasmas
Drop in and combat squad, melting something scary with their plasmas.
what do we think though? Too much? Would the TH/SS Terminators handle this stuff better? They're why I picked plasma rather than melta

2x Drop Pods
- Deathwind missile launchers.
1x Drop Pod
The Terminators chariots, TH/SS get the Deathwinds. They hope to add a scary 'area of denial' and I thought the other squads would kill more/be more at risk to a S5 large blast than TH/SS Termies.

-> 1845pts.
Stick a melta bomb somewhere?

What do we think?
Ideas I had was maybe ditch some-all of the combi-plasmas to perhaps flesh out the 5 man Tactical squad? Maybe get some power swords on the Death Company? Maybe some locator beacons? Maybe some more or less Deathwind missiles?

PS. I now have the top 3 posts in this section. Am I posting too much or is everyone else posting too little? :ok:

ntaw 01-09-17 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379225)
Since that will allow accurate turn 1 charges on any unit/vehicle I choose

That one's worth talking to your opponent about, Formation special rules stating the likes of 'roll one dice, all units in Formation arrive together' may override the Drop Pod Assault rule depending on who you play against. There's a SW Formation that has a unit of Terminators and a unit with a Pod and the draft FAQ kinda addresses it but I can't remember the specifics. Seems like the side that thinks you can do it require that there be enough Pods that the three Terminator units come in T1 together, which you handily have in this list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379225)
8 man Death Company squad
- 6x Bolt pistol + chainswords
- 2x Boltgun + powerfists
Drop pod
Drop in, rip a squad limb from limb, with the help of the Chaplain

A DCC comes stock with a jump pack (with no option for removal) and as such can't be transported via Drop Pod (Transports, BRB pg. 80).

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379225)
10 man Sternguard squad
- 10x Combi-plasmas
Drop in and combat squad, melting something scary with their plasmas.
what do we think though? Too much? Would the TH/SS Terminators handle this stuff better? They're why I picked plasma rather than melta

This unit is majorly overkill. On the other hand...you own 10 combi-weapon equipped Sternguard, do you also own a bunch of power weapon equipped Vanguard and a Stormraven?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379225)
I now have the top 3 posts in this section. Am I posting too much or is everyone else posting too little?

It's a contest? Here ya go buddy.

kiro the avenger! 01-09-17 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2379377)
That one's worth talking to your opponent about, Formation special rules stating the likes of 'roll one dice, all units in Formation arrive together' may override the Drop Pod Assault rule depending on who you play against. There's a SW Formation that has a unit of Terminators and a unit with a Pod and the draft FAQ kinda addresses it but I can't remember the specifics. Seems like the side that thinks you can do it require that there be enough Pods that the three Terminator units come in T1 together, which you handily have in this list.



A DCC comes stock with a jump pack (with no option for removal) and as such can't be transported via Drop Pod (Transports, BRB pg. 80).



This unit is majorly overkill. On the other hand...you own 10 combi-weapon equipped Sternguard, do you also own a bunch of power weapon equipped Vanguard and a Stormraven?



It's a contest? Here ya go buddy.

Someone on facebook mentioned this use of AAOIF, he had emails with someone at GW that pretty much confirmed if there's enough drop pods for them to all arrive turn 1, they can do that and assault.

I thought that jump packs just conferred Bulky now, are well. That's rather a pain. That means I rather have to rethink the whole list.

It is a bit overkill :P I own neither Vanguard nor a Stormraven, and currently the Sternguard are in a box winding their way through the Royal Mail.
They're technically a Tactical squad, and I've got enough bits to make out 10 with combi weapons, I plan to magnetise them all anyway.

I have created a modified list that replaces the AAOIF with a Golden Host, and fills out the 5man tactical squad. But that ended me at 4 drop pods, 3 since the Death Company had been evicted. And 2 units on the field turn 1 seems a bit naff in terms of not getting tabled too early.
TH/SS Termies don't seem as good at knocking out tanks, especially heavy tanks/walkers as 5 combi meltas. Although they are 'reuseable' and quite a lot tankier, but also more expensive.

ntaw 01-09-17 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379401)
Someone on facebook mentioned this use of AAOIF, he had emails with someone at GW that pretty much confirmed if there's enough drop pods for them to all arrive turn 1, they can do that and assault.

So long as your group is ok with it it's ok. Personally I have seen GW contradict themselves several times in email and social media form, and wouldn't even consider it as evidence one way or the other. As for my side of the topic, the AOIF specifically states that all units must be rolled for and as such that precludes them from being embarked on anything other than a Dedicated Transport with the Deep Strike rule while in Deep Strike Reserve. I'm typically quite against Formation rules being manipulated onto units that aren't part of that Formation or vice versa, once you blur the lines everything falls to shit in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379401)
I thought that jump packs just conferred Bulky now, are well. That's rather a pain. That means I rather have to rethink the whole list.

Jump packs do confer Bulky, they are however only allowed to embark on Transport vehicles in the instance that the Transport specifically stipulates their inclusion. For example, the Stormraven can transport Jump Infantry but no other Transport in our Codex has that stipulation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379401)
I own neither Vanguard nor a Stormraven

Ah well. There's a Formation in the SoB book that's two Vanguard squads, and a Sternguard squad embarked in a Stormraven. All units must be max size and all Vanguard get free power weapons and all Sternguard get free combi-weapons.

kiro the avenger! 01-09-17 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2379433)
So long as your group is ok with it it's ok. Personally I have seen GW contradict themselves several times in email and social media form, and wouldn't even consider it as evidence one way or the other. As for my side of the topic, the AOIF specifically states that all units must be rolled for and as such that precludes them from being embarked on anything other than a Dedicated Transport with the Deep Strike rule while in Deep Strike Reserve. I'm typically quite against Formation rules being manipulated onto units that aren't part of that Formation or vice versa, once you blur the lines everything falls to shit in my opinion.



Jump packs do confer Bulky, they are however only allowed to embark on Transport vehicles in the instance that the Transport specifically stipulates their inclusion. For example, the Stormraven can transport Jump Infantry but no other Transport in our Codex has that stipulation.



Ah well. There's a Formation in the SoB book that's two Vanguard squads, and a Sternguard squad embarked in a Stormraven. All units must be max size and all Vanguard get free power weapons and all Sternguard get free combi-weapons.

Yeah, the line at which formations meet just seems 50 shades of grey :(

Don't our landraiders still specify they can take Terminators, as if that were special? I thought it was the same story with jump packs, older rules not entirely up to date with the new edition.

I can't even find Shield of Baal to buy, let alone read :(

I think I'll have to rethink this entire list from the ground up me thinks. :/ maybe stick on an extra 150pts to make it a square 2000.
I'll make top slot again :)

EDIT: Just asked my group, seems podding AOIF is a no go :/
In any case it makes my options smaller and thus the decision easier :)

ntaw 01-09-17 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379457)
Yeah, the line at which formations meet just seems 50 shades of grey

I play it very simply (and how GW keeps reminding us it works). The units in the Formation get the rules, any other units in your army don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379457)
Don't our landraiders still specify they can take Terminators, as if that were special?

Land Raiders do not have the Deep Strike special rule and the Formation doesn't give the USR out so despite them being the only dedicated transport option for Terminators the stipulations of the Formation stop LRs from being a part of them (precedent clearly set with Deathwing armies and their current FAQ draft).

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379457)
I thought it was the same story with jump packs, older rules not entirely up to date with the new edition.

What do you mean by this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379457)
Just asked my group, seems podding AOIF is a no go

If GW decides to repeal this via FAQ I'll gladly play it but I really do think it's correct to play this way. Simple as asking your group, as always though. I find most people are quite open to playing against weird stuff like that so long as they know in advance and can accommodate with their army to avoid simply being steamrolled...but then again I stay the fuck out of the tournament scene :laugh:

kiro the avenger! 01-10-17 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2379521)
I play it very simply (and how GW keeps reminding us it works). The units in the Formation get the rules, any other units in your army don't.

Well the point of pods is that they aren't benefitting from any of the Terminators rules, yet the Terminators themselves still satisfy all of their rules and stipulations.
It wouldn't be an argument if we were asking can you attach a character and assault with them

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2379521)
Land Raiders do not have the Deep Strike special rule and the Formation doesn't give the USR out so despite them being the only dedicated transport option for Terminators the stipulations of the Formation stop LRs from being a part of them (precedent clearly set with Deathwing armies and their current FAQ draft).

I know that, my point was that our Landraiders still say they can take Terminator armoured models, which is an outdated rule from when Terminators wouldn't fit in other transports, not as a dedicated transport but just in general.
I assumed Storm Ravens were the same, saying they could take jump packs from a time when most stuff couldn't.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2379521)
What do you mean by this?

as above

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2379521)
If GW decides to repeal this via FAQ I'll gladly play it but I really do think it's correct to play this way. Simple as asking your group, as always though. I find most people are quite open to playing against weird stuff like that so long as they know in advance and can accommodate with their army to avoid simply being steamrolled...but then again I stay the fuck out of the tournament scene :laugh:

Yeah, Like I said I asked and my group rejected it.
So I've made a Mk. II version of this list, now 2000pts.

ntaw 01-10-17 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379545)
Well the point of pods is that they aren't benefitting from any of the Terminators rules

Ah, but the Terminators are benefiting from the rules of a unit bought from another Detachment. Door swings both ways. Also the AOIF specifically states that the units are rolled for as one, which contradicts the Drop Pod Assault rule which gets rid of rolls entirely. If Terminators could take Drop Pods as Dedicated Transports all would be well, but for reasons known to GW they aren't allowed to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiro the avenger! (Post 2379545)
I know that, my point was that our Landraiders still say they can take Terminator armoured models, which is an outdated rule from when Terminators wouldn't fit in other transports, not as a dedicated transport but just in general.

Sounds like you just haven't looked at other Transport options in our current Codex that specifically state they can't take Bulky/Very Bulky/Extremely Bulky models, making the Terminator caveat of the Land Raider entries quite appropriate. Check out the entries for the Rhino, for example, and it might make a bit more sense to you why it's worded the way it is.

In another reference to your comment about list posting, here's another three lists I posted that basically got no response a while back if you're interested in seeing some options for the Angel's Blade Detachment/Formations.


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