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-   -   what do you want in "eight edition" 40K? (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/general-40k/209194-what-do-you-want-eight-edition-40k.html)

jin 09-07-16 01:35 PM

what do you want in "eight edition" 40K?
 
I am seeing on da webz that an 8th edition is nigh,
and many are posting hopes online.

I propose that we post 1 or 3 single sentences.

Mine:

1) Cut the randomness in stuff that affects army character, e.g. psychic powers, warlord traits, and pay points instead.

2) Offer guidelines for alternate unit activation play.

3) Lost hull points should equate with lost effectiveness on the battlefield...

Old Man78 09-07-16 02:04 PM

I would like the game to be much more tactically orientated, it is a table top wargame after all! Less random shit like @jin said

And the weapons/vehicles to get a "real world" review, for example the blast rule is ridiculous, and anti aircraft guns not firing at ground targets without special rule is ridiculous

Split fire for heavy weapon teams and special weapon troops

Kreuger 09-07-16 02:18 PM

I know this is pie in the sky, but get rid of the stupid AP system and go back so save modifiers. It made the game balance far more subtle and nuanced.

the_barwn 09-07-16 06:49 PM

Make apothocaries & techmaries more useful, i.e. restore lost wounds on characters, repair vehicles like weapon destroyed

bring back human bombs & frenzon for the guard in penal battalions

give bonus's to chaos forces when using patron gods magic numbers in unit sizes

Fallen 09-07-16 09:47 PM

1) Overhaul of the Psychic phase, just feels too clumsy & slow at the moment.

2) reduce the game length - the game takes entirely too long to play.

3) Alternating player unit activations - either akin to Bolt Action, X-Wing (Just use unit Initiative value instead of Pilot skill), or Dystopian Wars.

4) Less random rolls for the sake of random rolls - a la Psychic table, Warlord Table, etc - this could be included in parts 1 & 2 technically...

R_Squared 09-07-16 10:01 PM

I hope that 8th edition drastically streamlines the game so that 1850 points can be played in under 2 hours.
The needless complexity adds nothing to the game and TBH it needs a reset akin to AoS to get me gaming again.

I would be enthused if they they took a fresh look at the whole system and came up with something that works in a similar vein to AoS. A ruleset that allows for multiple game play options that caters for causal, narrative and competitive gameplay

Kreuger 09-08-16 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2358538)
1) Overhaul of the Psychic phase, just feels too clumsy & slow at the moment.

2) reduce the game length - the game takes entirely too long to play.

3) Alternating player unit activations - either akin to Bolt Action, X-Wing (Just use unit Initiative value instead of Pilot skill), or Dystopian Wars.

4) Less random rolls for the sake of random rolls - a la Psychic table, Warlord Table, etc - this could be included in parts 1 & 2 technically...

Did you ever play Target Games' Warzone? That game had a really nice activation system.

And agreed less random garbage the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Squared (Post 2358546)
I hope that 8th edition drastically streamlines the game so that 1850 points can be played in under 2 hours.
The needless complexity adds nothing to the game and TBH it needs a reset akin to AoS to get me gaming again.

I would be enthused if they they took a fresh look at the whole system and came up with something that works in a similar vein to AoS. A ruleset that allows for multiple game play options that caters for causal, narrative and competitive gameplay

I think I disagree but I want clarification first. Where do you see the needless complexity coming from? I would contend the problem isn't complexity (I actually rather like that) but the ongoing imbalances and the fragmentation of the special rules through formations.

At the end of 6th I thought we were getting back more to a better place. But 40k in my opinion had been seriously watered down when they switched to 3rd Ed. I despise the AP system. Save modifiers are far superior. Every edition since 3rd has slowly gotten closer and closer to 2nd ed.

Fallen 09-08-16 07:48 AM

@Kreuger no I have never heard of that game "Warzone".

Although after using some Google Fu it appears that basically at the start of each turn both sides roll for initiative; the winner then chooses the first side/model to move, and then alternating afterwards.

Not a bad system, that's pretty much the same way that Dystopian Wars works (just not with a D20) without the choice factor.

Kreuger 09-08-16 08:00 AM

Your Google fu is good!

Warzone was a great game. One of my favorites. Their D20 system was really good. Much greater range of skills/abilities, and all the rolls worked out very nicely as percentages.

It might have thrived in the "I hate GW" niche, but they tried to go it the same way as GW at the height of Gw's GWness. It didn't work.

R_Squared 09-08-16 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreuger (Post 2358578)
.....I think I disagree but I want clarification first. Where do you see the needless complexity coming from? I would contend the problem isn't complexity (I actually rather like that) but the ongoing imbalances and the fragmentation of the special rules through formations.

At the end of 6th I thought we were getting back more to a better place. But 40k in my opinion had been seriously watered down when they switched to 3rd Ed. I despise the AP system. Save modifiers are far superior. Every edition since 3rd has slowly gotten closer and closer to 2nd ed.

To me needless complexity is a number of issues,

1. Random table rolling where points could be spent for abilities. It doesn't add "flavour", its just annoying.

2. Assault and challenges, as an ork player this has become just so laborious and off putting as to not want to bother.

3. The complete overhaul of the flyers in the game. TBH, I didn't actually bother to play this part, so it maybe more streamlined for all I know, but it seemed to me that adding another phase is not exactly going to help matters, even if its voluntary or not.

4. The Rulebook. It's just horrible to use. You can end up jumping back and forth through it for clarifications, and it just slows the whole process down. The layout is also not to my taste.

5. Multiple Codex's and supplements. Again, as an Ork player I have a number of books to use, plus FW's IA8. It's a huge pain. Lots of lovely detail and fluff, sometimes, but really just crap to use. Plus an opponent may have just as many, We shouldn't need to have to have 3-6 complete books just to play a game. This is where AoS wins out for me, Dataslates with everything you need in front of you. I also play a lot of X-Wing, and I appreciate having everything I need right in front of me and a simple game mechanic.

That's just a few that I can think of off the top of my head, I just hate rolling dice for no real benefit. Roll to hit, roll to wound, roll to save, roll for FnP, roll for Ld etc etc what a pain in the arse. That's upto 5 rolls to attempt to kill something.
X-Wing proves that a game can have complexity and strategic depth but have a simple mechanic. You roll to attack, and to defend. That's it.
I wish 40k had something similar, I'd probably come back to playing it if they do sort it out, but at the moment I cannot invest 4+ hours to play a game. Christ the last game I played at 2000 points it took over 6 hours, and we only just got to turn 5! My back was killing me towards the end.


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