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-   -   templates/blasts and flyers (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/40k-rules-discussion/203546-templates-blasts-flyers.html)

Woodzee316 03-11-16 12:43 PM

templates/blasts and flyers
 
watching some batreps on you tube and came across this situation and wasn't sure about it as wordings and interpretations.

blast markers and templates can't target flyers but what these guys were doing was with flamer templates was targeting a model in a way that it crossed the flyer and therefore the flyer was under the template so it took a hit.

also when the blast template scattered onto a flyer then it took the hit.

i was under the impression that a flyer can't be hit by templates or blast markers even if they scattered onto them. i couldn't find anything to back up either one except the bit about not being able to target flyers.

any thoughts?

Rush Darling 03-11-16 05:42 PM

The logic of it is a bit circuitous.

To start with you can't snap fire blast weapons and templates. Secondly, all shots at zooming flyers / swooping monstrous creatures are snap shots.

So the above effectively prevents you firing templates and blast weapons at flyers, and whilst it doesn't explicitly say so, I'd argue that a blast or template fired at another model that touches a flyer would still require skyfire to hit it.

Now lets look at skyfire for a moment, skyfire allows you to shoot flying targets normally, but means you snap fire at ground targets.

As such I believe that you can fire templates and blast weapons at flyers, provided you have skyfire, but these shots now no longer hit ground targets, as they would be snap firing at ground targets.

All of the above is how I make sense of it, however the BRB also states "A unit takes a hit for each model that is fully, or even partially, underneath the template or blast marker" which also specifically includes the base.

Now here's where it gets tricky, FLYERS have the following sentence under their HARD TO HIT heading: "Templates and blast weapons, and any other attacks that don't roll to hit, cannot hit zooming flyers."

Flying monstrous creatures have no such exception.

In summary, ignoring most of my blathering above, RAW zooming flyers can never be hit by blasts or templates, but swooping FMCs may be hit if it scatters on to them or targets them with the skyfire special rule.

ntaw 03-11-16 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodzee316 (Post 2311738)
i couldn't find anything to back up either one except the bit about not being able to target flyers.

It's all in the wording, from pg. 84 under Hard To Hit:

Quote:

Template and Blast weapons, and any other attacks that do not roll to hit, cannot hit Zooming Fliers.
Any template that is placed over a Zooming Flier does not hit it. There would have to be a specific notation for such an event in either the Blast or Template sections, which there is not.

As a side comment, I've seen templates used very wrongly with regard to hitting a second unit. Not saying that the guys you saw were misusing it but the rules for a template weapon state that we place the template so that it covers "as many models in the target unit as possible" and this stops you from angling it so it hits the main target less effectively in order to hit a second unit. Conversely if you've placed the template so that it's covering as many modes in the target unit as it can and it's also hitting more enemy models, they too are hit (unless of course they are a Zooming Flier, which is specifically excluded from being hit by template weapons in its rule section).

Rush Darling 03-11-16 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2311890)
As a side comment, I've seen templates used very wrongly with regard to hitting a second unit. Not saying that the guys you saw were misusing it but the rules for a template weapon state that we place the template so that it covers "as many models in the target unit as possible" and this stops you from angling it so it hits the main target less effectively in order to hit a second unit. Conversely if you've placed the template so that it's covering as many modes in the target unit as it can and it's also hitting more enemy models, they too are hit (unless of course they are a Zooming Flier, which is specifically excluded from being hit by template weapons in its rule section).

This +1

Woodzee316 03-11-16 09:49 PM

right that all makes sense now as it was FMC's not zooming flyers. sorry should've made the differentiation in the OP.

thanks for clearing that up guys.

ntaw 03-11-16 10:19 PM

:laugh: yeah, that does indeed make all the difference.

Woodzee316 03-12-16 03:51 AM

on a similar note then can flyers target each other with templates?

it says in the rules that they can choose whether to use skyfire or not. if this is the case then a bale flamer could hit other flyers? i think they should be able to and agree with what you say @Rush Darling . i only ask as i have just finished a heldrake and that would make a huge differance to the load out i use as my meta everyone has a flyer of some sort.

scscofield 03-12-16 08:24 AM

No, they can not due to the rule listed above stating that no template or blast weapon can hit a zooming flyer.

Heldrakes with baleflyers can still do their, uhh want to say it was called vector strike, in the movement phase against other flyers.

ntaw 03-12-16 01:12 PM

^ Gets it. Skyfire allow you to shoot at full ballistic skill, it doesn't change that blast or template weapons do not roll to hit.

Woodzee316 03-12-16 09:00 PM

ok cool, much appreciated.
thanks for that


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