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Uber Ork 03-02-16 07:06 AM

Armada or X-wing? Fight!
 
I've been thinking about getting into either Armada or X-wing. Sadly, I only have the time/money for one of them. So, which game do you think I should invest in? What are the pros & cons of each? Which is your favorite and why? Let the debate begin.

And in the words of Mortal Kombat...

FIGHT!

ntaw 03-03-16 12:41 AM

X-Wing because I like squadrons and aces more than I like flagships and planning 3 turns of movement ahead.

..or because it's less expensive.

..or because you get a bigger Millennium Falcon.

Fallen 03-03-16 08:32 AM

Armada plays a lot similar to 40k (grand battle RTS) - usually takes about 2 hours to play a game (maybe 1.5 if you have your shit together before starting)

generally utilizes capital ships vs squadrons.

General Start up funds - ballpark $200-250 (not counting additional items such as storage)

----

X-Wing

plays more akin to a necromunda or other RPGs I would say.

game play is usually lasts an hour or so I'd say - @ntaw am I right, it's been a few months since I've played, the group has been playing a lot of Armada lately

Start up funds - Ballpark around $75-100 to get a good start

----

Hope that helps you a bit @Uber Ork , I like both systems - probably like X-wing more since it is more "pick up and go" friendly to go to the FLGS for me. Armada is nice to play with friends prearranged for me since I'm not very competitive for that game system (which currently I feel has a lot more of a competitive list show up in a pickup game)

Uber Ork 03-07-16 12:54 AM

@ ntaw:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2309074)
X-Wing because I like squadrons and aces more than I like flagships and planning 3 turns of movement ahead.

The movement planning for big ships does seem like it wold take time to get good at. Are there more special characters or "aces" in x-wing? It seemed like there are "aces" (of sorts) in Armada too (i.e. special characters with special powers and boosts, etc).


Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2309074)
..or because it's less expensive.

That's for sure. The start up cost with Armada is significantly more. Still it's way less than 40k which is the game system I used to play when I had more time/money.


Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2309074)
..or because you get a bigger Millennium Falcon.

Ha ha, also true! :) However, Armada has Star Destroyers. :wink:



.



@ Fallen:

Ok, first up...


Game type:

Armada =
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309074)
plays a lot similar to 40k (grand battle RTS)

--- versus ---

X-wing =
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309074)
plays more akin to a necromunda or other RPGs I would say.

So large table top (i.e. 40K) -vs- skirmish (i.e. Necromunda). I've never been too much into skirmish games, as I usually live by the maxim if a little is good, more is better. However, with my current time and budget limitations, a skirmish game might be more realistic for me. But... then there's my love of huge fleets and the fact that you get to play with Star Destroyers!

Advantage: Armada



.

Playing time:

Armada =
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309074)
usually takes about 2 hours to play a game

--- versus ---

X-wing =
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309074)
game play is usually lasts an hour or so I'd say

1 hour would be better for my current time constraints, but 2 hours isn't too unreasonable. Coming out of 40k, anything under 3-4 hours seems fantastic! In the end however, sometimes I only have an hour...

Advantage: X-wing



.

Scale:

Armada =
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309074)
generally utilizes capital ships

--- versus ---

X-wing =
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309074)
squadrons

As already mentioned, I'm a sucker for playing a whole fleet -vs- a single squadron (even if you imagined it was part of a fleet). The scale for x-wing would make large capital ships impractical. Even if fantasy flight built a star destroyer it would be the size of a dining room table. Who could afford it/store it/transport it? This leaves only one game system capable of slaking my capital ship thirst. No surprise here...

Advantage: Armada



.

Start up cost:

Armada =
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309074)
General Start up funds - ballpark $200-250 (not counting additional items such as storage)

--- versus ---

X-wing =
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309074)
Start up funds - Ballpark around $75-100 to get a good start

Ouch, Armada is pretty steep when compared to x-wing. Still, way better than what I was used to with 40K. I wonder if in the end, after you've purchased all the available ships for both game systems, if the cost is similar? Still though, with 4 little mouths to feed, $75-100 sounds way more my speed...

Advantage: X-wing



.

End result? Tied after 4 categories!

Hmmm... well that was inconclusive. :laugh: It sounds like Armada is the game I want to play, while X-wing is the game I can afford/have time to play.



.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309074)
Hope that helps you a bit @Uber Ork, I like both systems - probably like X-wing more since it is more "pick up and go" friendly to go to the FLGS for me.

You totally were helpful! I can see how it would be easier to grab a few small fighters and whip out a quick game. Something that's super helpful in my situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309074)
Armada is nice to play with friends prearranged for me since I'm not very competitive for that game system (which currently I feel has a lot more of a competitive list show up in a pickup game)

That's interesting. I think this has been my experience without question when playing skirmish -vs- large scale battles. I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because skirmish is smaller and more intimate. It just creates that "let's hang out and have fun together" vibe. I think everyone knows large scale battles can be this way too, but so often they tend to be more on the competitive side. I wonder why?

Most likely I would be playing Armada with my close friends. Usually, as I'm sure it's the case in most places, when one of us gets in, the rest are soon to follow. We all used to play 40K extensively, and had a huge gaming group. However, over time that has dwindled. It's just getting too darn expensive. And the time... don't even get me started on the time. :)













.

ntaw 03-07-16 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallen (Post 2309170)
game play is usually lasts an hour or so I'd say

Gameplay lasts as long as it takes to finish the game unless you're playing at a tournament. If all players are seasoned vets that know their lists and the rules that all the cards on the table are employing well it can take an hour, otherwise who knows? I've had 100 point games take well into the 2-3 hour mark at times based on game knowledge or just whether or not new and adventurous things are being tested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Ork (Post 2310202)
The movement planning for big ships does seem like it wold take time to get good at.

Movement of ships in X-Wing takes time to get good at too, and depending on your squad build can be anywhere from painstakingly difficult to driving a bus down an empty 5 lane highway. I'm just not interested in the movement mechanic of large ships in Armada.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Ork (Post 2310202)
Are there more special characters or "aces" in x-wing? It seemed like there are "aces" (of sorts) in Armada too (i.e. special characters with special powers and boosts, etc).

If you've seen the new movie, think about Poe. He's an ace. A lone ship, whipping around the enemy's fighters wreaking havoc and doing all the sweetest maneuvers doing it. Both systems have special characters and fluffy ways of building your squadrons, but there's something specifically satisfying about having lone ships just rip through the enemy lines without being touched (Soontir Fel, Whisper, Darth Vader, Tycho Celchu, Jake Farrell, that sort of thing). I don't think I would ever describe the pilot team of a large ship as aces despite them even potentially being the best at their jobs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Ork (Post 2310202)
However, Armada has Star Destroyers.

Have you taken in the Imperial Raider for X-Wing? We still get massive ships that move uniquely and use totally different rules and even the same play area. Not to mention it comes with a TIE Advanced and some awesome pilots for it plus an absolute ton of rockin' upgrade cards. There's even still a large planning ahead factor to the X-Wing huge ships in that you have to plan your energy use; something I find way more thematic for big ships.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Ork (Post 2310202)
I've never been too much into skirmish games, as I usually live by the maxim if a little is good, more is better. However, with my current time and budget limitations, a skirmish game might be more realistic for me. But... then there's my love of huge fleets and the fact that you get to play with Star Destroyers!

This sounds like you want people to convince you to play Armada because that's the game you actually like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Ork (Post 2310202)
I'm a sucker for playing a whole fleet -vs- a single squadron (even if you imagined it was part of a fleet). The scale for x-wing would make large capital ships impractical.

This is what my girlfriend and I do all the time. She has the Raider and a contingent of TIEs and a Decimator ('cuz we don't have a Gozanti yet) and I play all small base Rebel ships. Sometimes I'll bring the YT1300/2400 to the party but I really like certain builds and they tend to fit together certain ways. X-Wing will never have capital ships but there's still tons of fleet play, albeit at a higher financial and storage requirement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Ork (Post 2310202)
This leaves only one game system capable of slaking my capital ship thirst. No surprise here...

Again, it sounds like you just want to play Armada. What's really the point of this thread? :laugh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Ork (Post 2310202)
I wonder if in the end, after you've purchased all the available ships for both game systems, if the cost is similar?

Given that both systems are ever expanding and that Disney now has a hand in how it's released: there will always be more to buy.

Start proxying cards you want to try out for either system. Print them off (all available card's graphics are easily findable online, FFG doesn't hide their rules) or just write the effects down on a piece of paper, but don't fall into the trap of buying ships because they have absolutely key cards for certain ships (Starviper for Autothrusters and the K-Wing for Twin Laser Turret spring to mind, though they are both fun ships to play in my opinion).

R_Squared 03-07-16 04:52 PM

TBH it does sound like you want to play Armada, but the initial cost and time investment is putting you off.
I think the simplest question, and the most important one, is what is played locally?

I play x-wing, because all the local gamers play it. They also play Armada, but when I go down the club, I am much more likely to get an x-wing game.

Whats the most popular system locally, or are you lucky enough to be able to influence and drive forward a game system?

Creon 03-08-16 08:13 PM

Armada is Strategic, X-wing Tactical. X-wing is much more dependent on card synergy tricks, and can be less fun sometimes because of that. Armada can be less fun depending on the size and composition of ships. The bigger ships sometimes get overwhelming.

ntaw 03-09-16 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creon (Post 2310722)
X-wing is much more dependent on card synergy tricks, and can be less fun sometimes because of that.

:laugh: that's just about my favourite part of it!

Then again I love list making in 40k, so I likely get it from there.

Uber Ork 03-09-16 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2310330)
If all players are seasoned vets that know their lists and the rules that all the cards on the table are employing well it can take an hour, otherwise who knows? I've had 100 point games take well into the 2-3 hour mark at times based on game knowledge or just whether or not new and adventurous things are being tested.

Makes sense. Whether playing a table top or board game, you've also got to take into account the people you're playing with. You've got the one type of player who's ready to go and moves quickly on one end of the spectrum, and the type who takes forever to make their moves/take their turn, etc. on the other. If you're playing that 2nd type, a game (all be it, any game) will take longer as well.



Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2310330)
Movement of ships in X-Wing takes time to get good at too, and depending on your squad build can be anywhere from painstakingly difficult to driving a bus down an empty 5 lane highway.

How does squad building affect movement to make it so difficult? I've only seen bits of games be played and watched a few online tutorials.



Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2310330)
If you've seen the new movie, think about Poe. He's an ace. A lone ship, whipping around the enemy's fighters wreaking havoc and doing all the sweetest maneuvers doing it. Both systems have special characters and fluffy ways of building your squadrons, but there's something specifically satisfying about having lone ships just rip through the enemy lines without being touched (Soontir Fel, Whisper, Darth Vader, Tycho Celchu, Jake Farrell, that sort of thing). I don't think I would ever describe the pilot team of a large ship as aces despite them even potentially being the best at their jobs.

I was more thinking about aces embedded in squadrons like Luke or Wedge, etc.
http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20141205204641 . http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20150223204219

However, I do get what you're saying about the "ace" feel in X-wing. Just as X-wing would have to imagine their dog fight being part of a larger fleet -v- fleet battle, Armada would have to imagine a dog fight happening between opposing squadrons (i.e. you don't have a dog fight but just roll dice for stands of fighters that just sit there, and move each squadron strength dials as you take/inflict losses).



Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2310330)
Have you taken in the Imperial Raider for X-Wing? We still get massive ships that move uniquely and use totally different rules and even the same play area. Not to mention it comes with a TIE Advanced and some awesome pilots for it plus an absolute ton of rockin' upgrade cards. There's even still a large planning ahead factor to the X-Wing huge ships in that you have to plan your energy use; something I find way more thematic for big ships.

I haven't actually played either game. My gaming group was almost exclusively 40k. After a time (I played from the tail end of 2nd ed through the beginning of 6th), the group began to dwindle. Some got into warmachine/hordes, but I never really got into that (partly because I'm not a huge skirmish guy, and partly because of life chaos/business). With X-wing or Armada I would be looking to chart new ground and spark interest. Most of what I've done so far, has been to research online and watch youtube game reviews, game comparisons, & battle reports, etc.

While x-wing does have physically large ships, I was referring to the nostalgic feeling I get when seeing Star Destroyers on the big screen or on the table top. :)



Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2310330)
This sounds like you want people to convince you to play Armada because that's the game you actually like.

---AND---
Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2310330)
Again, it sounds like you just want to play Armada. What's really the point of this thread? :laugh:

Well based on what you and Fallen had said, I did come to the conclusion (at this point anyway) that Armada looks like it might be the game I want to play, but that X-wing looks like the game I can afford to play (both with time and money). However, to be fair, I did say that after looking at 4 categories (game type, playing time, scale, & start up cost) that things were tied 2 to 2.

Also, it sounds like you're pretty biased, and would take any answer other than my saying "I want to play X-wing," as my seriously not having considered both sides. :wink: Not a problem though. I asked you guys to "fight," and wanted people to truly tell me what they think. You've definitely been doing that, and I really appreciate it. Thank you! :)

You may not believe me, but I truly am open/torn at this point (i.e. thus my saying things were tied 2 to 2). X-wing has beautiful models, and fits within the financial and time constraints I have, but lacks the large capital ship fleet battles I would enjoy.



Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2310330)
X-Wing will never have capital ships but there's still tons of fleet play, albeit at a higher financial and storage requirement.

Yeah, I was thinking about that. Having to transport/safely store even one large X-wing ship (much less several) looks like it would be both costly and a bummer.



Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2310330)
Given that both systems are ever expanding and that Disney now has a hand in how it's released: there will always be more to buy.

Ha ha, so true. Disney is a marketing giant. I was more meaning that with these types of games you are always adding more models. As such, I was wondering if in the end, the total cost was about the same (even if the start up cost wasn't)?


Quote:

Originally Posted by ntaw (Post 2310330)
Start proxying cards you want to try out for either system. Print them off (all available card's graphics are easily findable online, FFG doesn't hide their rules) or just write the effects down on a piece of paper, but don't fall into the trap of buying ships because they have absolutely key cards for certain ships (Starviper for Autothrusters and the K-Wing for Twin Laser Turret spring to mind, though they are both fun ships to play in my opinion).

I'm a huge fan of proxying/play testing before actually investing money. Probably because I have so little money. :) I have to save up for games like this. The good news? It gives me lots of time to research. :laugh:






@ R_Squared

Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Squared (Post 2310330)
TBH it does sound like you want to play Armada, but the initial cost and time investment is putting you off.

Yes, I think for the most part that's true. The model quality overall though is greater for X-wing. It really is a bummer to me that Armada fighters don't come pre-painted. However, overall, I really love capital ships and enjoy larger strategic table top games -vs- skirmish. My closest gaming buddy though, is leaning towards X-wing. So... things are still pretty open/up in the air for me. :)


Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Squared (Post 2310330)
I think the simplest question, and the most important one, is what is played locally?

Great question. A few years back my absolutely favorite FLGS (sadly) went under. There's another game store in town, but I've just never really connected with it. The owner's not too friendly, and while I probably shouldn't compare/give them a chance, it's just not the same. As such, most gaming is/has been with good friends. Currently neither X-wing or Armada is being played with those friends, and I would be striking new ground/hoping to spark interest. One of my closest friends though, is interested in launching into one of these two games with me. Right now he's leaning a slightly toward X-wing, but like me, is not 100% either.


Quote:

Originally Posted by R_Squared (Post 2310330)
I play x-wing, because all the local gamers play it. They also play Armada, but when I go down the club, I am much more likely to get an x-wing game.

Whats the most popular system locally, or are you lucky enough to be able to influence and drive forward a game system?

I have some influence. Years ago my close friend and I got everyone interested in 40K, but that was before GW became increasingly less customer friendly. I think people would be interested in playing either of these game systems if they started seeing them be played on the tabletop.






@ Creon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creon (Post 2310330)
Armada is Strategic, X-wing Tactical. X-wing is much more dependent on card synergy tricks, and can be less fun sometimes because of that.

How so? Do you mean that card synergy lends itself to exploitation and cheesy power gaming, or do you mean it leads to complexity which really slows the game down, or something else?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Creon (Post 2310330)
Armada can be less fun depending on the size and composition of ships. The bigger ships sometimes get overwhelming.

Are you referring here to how many order disks they have/how far out in advance you have to plan?











.

Rush Darling 03-09-16 11:51 AM

Haven't played Armada, so I can't make comparison.

I just felt like I needed to emphasise how cheap it can be to get into X-Wing, when I started I picked up a couple of boxed aggressors off of ebay for 35 ($50) and that was me done. Fleet - finished, and they're by no means the cheapest ships.

40k Is still the epic throw down gaming bread and butter of my group, but we wanted a Skirmish game and X-Wing has filled that niche nicely. It's even brought half a dozen new faces into the group. I've played a few larger team games of X-wing and had a blast too, though with only two ships that like facehugging asteroids I'm normally one of the first ones out xD

Overall, if you do decide you're looking for a reasonably priced skirmish game. then I thoroughly recommend X-wing, any maybe get a nice big canvas print of a star destroyer for the wall of your man cave?


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