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-   -   Why do people hate the Ultramarines? (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/general-40k/20307-why-do-people-hate-ultramarines.html)

The Son of Horus 10-27-08 09:06 AM

Why do people hate the Ultramarines?
It's cool to hate on the Ultramarines-- but why do we do it? What is it about the Thirteenth Legion that's so very despicable? Their color scheme is decent, they're the sort of epitome of Space Marine-ness... but yet, everyone seems to hate them. So, tell me, why do you hate the Ultramarines?

Honestly, the only thing I can think of that's wrong with them is only problematic because they're the sort of iconic Space Marines-- if Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Black Templars, or Space Wolves were in the same position as the sort of GW sample models of sorts, I'd find them as unoriginal when they show up at the table as the Ultramarines. But that's it-- it really just seems like the Ultramarines player just took their cue from GW and didn't put any thought into it when they show up with 2nd Company Ultramarines. I know that's not necessarily the case, because they're a First Founding Chapter and the blue and gold was what the old Legion wore-- but really, that's the only gripe I can come up with. Does it just seem like people can't stand Space Marines in blue because the internet is a forum for anonymous bitching, or can someone enlighten me as to why people actually really do hate the Ultramarines?

cccp 10-27-08 09:31 AM

is it because they get all the updates and new models? or because they're the GW base army that kids play?

BWLAF93 10-27-08 09:35 AM

Well personally I love the Ultramarines and I can't understand why so many hate them. I think that it is a great colour scheme, and I also think that just because it is an unoriginal paint scheme doesn't mean that you can't make it look great through your skill as a painter. After all, Thousand Sons are blue and gold and people like them!


Originally Posted by cccp (Post 218146)
is it because they get all the updates and new models? or because they're the GW base army that kids play?

Just like to point out that I am not a kid, and I play them. I also want to know why people hate GW so much. They are the reason this forum exists! (fixed up some spelling in your post :biggrin:)

N0rdicNinja 10-27-08 10:04 AM

TheUnmarked 10-27-08 10:04 AM

Actually I think that it has to do with how popular it is to hate the ultramarine's, in an attempt to be different many people copy others who also be different to the establishment or mom and dad figure (GW) and therefore rebel by hating that which represents it. A bit like Emo kids actually or anyone acting up to be 'Unique and individual' which in reality is just copying someone other than their parents or the established authority.
The short of it has to be that humans just aren't all that original.

darklove 10-27-08 10:11 AM

I don't like how they get so much new stuff all the time while other armies are just ignored. My army is 2 editions out of date, yet Ultras get a new dex within a few months of the newest edition!

TheUnmarked 10-27-08 10:17 AM

Granted the fact that how often fantasy army books get updated the fact that only the SM codex for 40K gets regular updates is a real load of bullshit.

Syph 10-27-08 10:30 AM

I think the biggest thing is just pure 'resentment' (maybe a little strong for some people at least) - I'd be miffed if I had a Dark Eldar army that hadn't seen any updates.

I tend to see more Blood Angels armies and spin offs rather than UMs though, certainly a lot more kids with those armies. I think it might be the vampire thing that attracts them (and they're definitely more 'bad-ass').

I started collecting UMs back in 1995 and I really hadn't a clue what to collect. All I remember is the staff giving my friend and I an undercoated marine, asked us what colours we liked, and I picked blue. 'That'd be the Ultramarines'; so I painted it as an UM. I bought a squad of 5 and the UM Captain (the one the current Sicarius model is based on) and haven't looked back.

I don't know if that's how a lot of kids get into it still or whether in fact UMs are the most collected army. I'm assuming they are, I dunno. As I said, I think people hate them because their own armies haven't had the regularity of releases as them.

Red Orc 10-27-08 10:32 AM

I both play Ultras, and (I think) understand why people hate them.

It is to do with them being the 'standard' Chapter, and the Second Company, because that's the GW Studio army, is the one that gets in all the publicity material - WD, posters, adverts, the Codex... so the 2nd Co is everywhere.

This produces a familiarity (at least with the imagery) that breeds contempt, the feeling that GW are pushing the 2nd Co Ultras as the 'norm'. And let's face it, who wants to be in this hobby to be 'normal' (read, 'unimaginative')?

In my defence, I didn't know I was painting my son's Ultras as 2nd Co, it had all changed since I used to play many years ago; I - armed with Codex that said Company Iconography could be applied in numerous places, and an old WD that said that the 5th Company was disgraced, which I thought sounded cool - painted them with gold trim because that's what all the (new) Ultras I'd seen looked like, then gave them black kneepads to represent 5th Co. Yeah yeah; I didn't know, and in the end repainting the kneepad was easier than repainting all the trim.

But things as simple as the old squad-with-the-paints, they were included with a guide to painting (2nd Co) Ultras. BfM and AoBR, they're 2nd Co Ultras. They really are everywhere. And that annoys people I think; both those don't play Ultras, because the Salamanders, White Scars, Black Templars, Space Wolves, Fleshtearers or whoever get really very little attention, and those who play Ultras, because the rest of you take the piss out us.

I like the Ultramarines. I like the Romanesque, classical look of them (I like the Thousand Sons too, not just because they're blue and gold); I also like many other chapters - the Sallies and White Scars, Blood Angels (for fluff reasons mainly), Dark Angels (sooo Goth) and probably my fave chapter going back to RT days would be the Crimson Fists (who were in many ways usurped by the Ultras in the '90s).

If the Crimson Fists were the 'GW Poster Boys' would the Ultras been seen as imaginative and the CFs as 'safe/dull'? Probably. Any 'GW poster boys' are going to run the risk of alienating a lot of people who see their chapter being ignored.

Of course, the answer isn't to make the CFs or the Sallies or whoever the new poster boys, I think that would be to make the same mistake with a different chapter - it's just to place less emphasis on the Ultras and spread the love a little. I think that is happening a bit, I've certainly seen more CF lists and Sallie lists in the past few weeks than any time since... records began.

But on the other hand, the Raven Guard seem to have slipped off the radar and there's no great signs of a White Scar revival, so...

I dunno. I think it boils down to: non-Ultra players, please cut us some slack, it's not our fault GW push the Ultras; Ultras players, let's support the players of 'minority' chapters and give them a bit of appreciation, because they don't get half anough love from GW.

:tolerance and moderation cyclops:

killmaimburn 10-27-08 10:45 AM

I mostly think people resent the Ultras because of all the love GW gives them. I mean, come on, look at the new UM characters. Tigurius is probably about = to ahriman (which makes NO sense) and Calgar has one of the beastliest retinues in the game, as well as an awesome ability to control the battlefield. I don't know too much about chronus and teclion, but I hear sicarius is a beast. And when I see the ultramarines getting three characters when salamanders and raven guard only get one and the iron hands don't get any, well, that's just not fair. And also, I've got some resentment as a chaos player because their new codex is good in every way that ours is bad.

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