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-   -   Conclaves...why the big deal? (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/general-40k/198034-conclaves-why-big-deal.html)

HokieHWT 11-21-15 04:47 AM

Conclaves...why the big deal?
 
New to 7th edition marines and all I hear is "take a conclave, it's great"! Personally, I don't see it as a big deal. 2+ on the warp charge if you have 3 libbys, is it that important? I'm not a huge psyker guy, I prefer shoot 'me up. So what's the big deal mates?

Thanks!

Mossy Toes 11-21-15 05:17 AM

A near-guarantee that you'll be able to get off Invisibility or Perfect Timing or Iron Arm or whatever on exactly who needs it whenever they need it (and when you take Tigirius, the rerolls to select powers mean you have an additional chance to get that clutch power you were looking for). It means that enemies cannot shut down your key, clutch psychic power(s) (especially your Blessings, which are the best powers, since nearly every DTW bonus is only for when you are targetted) even if they're bringing 20 deny dice to the table, like the summoniest daemon psyker-spam possible that's out there. Plus you can throw a few dice at it and be practically guaranteed to get multiple successes, rather than the "oh yeah I threw 6 dice at this high ML spell and still failed/perilsed."

Essentially: reliability. The psychic phase has been the most random and uncontrollable phase for as long as it's been its own distinct thing, due to how few dice you roll in it and how important each of those dice are for it (compared to the dozens you roll for each squad in shooting or combat)--this virtually eliminates anything except the wierdest flukey bullshit, unless you get super screwed on power generation (which, again, Tigurius really helps mitigate).

The thing about psychic powers is that they are an asymmetrical gamble. Which ones you generate, which ones you actually manage to cast... if every one of your 3 Daemon Princes rolls Iron Arm, then you've basically won the game right there. If you have 2 or 3 Invisibilities in your list, you've basically won right there (barring an ITC FAQ). Some powers are extremely powerful, while others are... quite mediocre. Then you're at the mercy of the dice to cast, then not to get denied, then to hit (with witchfires like Psychic Shriek especially), then to actually deal damage... shooting only has to deal with half as many points of failure, and is usually easier to correct for (high BS, twin-linked, markerlights, orders, whatever). Investing in psychic powers is a risk at every level, but can pay off with exorbitant rewards when it hits. A Conclave eliminates much of that risk and softens the risk in other ways (not only do you basically auto-cast, but you ALSO are paying for a bunch of chances to get the power you want).

To say nothing of the anti-psychic potential that many MLs and psychic hoods can bring to the table. It really bothers me that far and away the best anti-psychic strategy in 40k... is to bring *more* of your own psychic than they have brought. "Perils on any doubles" that DE and Khorne can get, or bonuses on DTW rolls... really don't compare well to the sheer mass of deny dice that a list with a lot of psykers (like, say, a Conclave's-worth) can bring to bear--especially when psykers bring their own DTW bonuses to the table!

HokieHWT 11-21-15 05:21 AM

Well that ends this thread! Thanks @Moss Toes, brilliant as usual:grin:

MidnightSun 11-21-15 08:24 AM

317 Attachment(s)
Basically, yeah, but you forgot that it also gives you 3 attachable instances of Ld10, ATSKNF and Hit and Run for 65pts each.

Imperial Guard fucking can't get enough of that; castings of Prescience and Shrouding on 2s, buried in un-sweepable bouncing blobs that are almost guaranteed to get Orders off.

Xabre 11-21-15 01:48 PM

For what it's also worth, if you go the other way and use the Dark Angels one, you also have access to improved Mind Worm, and everyone loves access to psychic plasma weaponry with no Gets Hot!

Mossy Toes 11-21-15 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightSun (Post 2254338)
Basically, yeah, but you forgot that it also gives you 3 attachable instances of Ld10, ATSKNF and Hit and Run for 65pts each.

Imperial Guard fucking can't get enough of that; castings of Prescience and Shrouding on 2s, buried in un-sweepable bouncing blobs that are almost guaranteed to get Orders off.

Yeah, White Scars are also pretty fantastic to stick those chapter tactics wherever you want in your army, since you can take whichever chapter of a Conclave that you want, it being its own formation, alongside the rest.

Xabre 11-21-15 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mossy Toes (Post 2254482)
Yeah, White Scars are also pretty fantastic to stick those chapter tactics wherever you want in your army, since you can take whichever chapter of a Conclave that you want, it being its own formation, alongside the rest.

Of course, then there are those people who also say that if you go Iron Hands conclave, you're also allowed to add 6 extra techmarines.

Mossy Toes 11-23-15 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xabre (Post 2254498)
Of course, then there are those people who also say that if you go Iron Hands conclave, you're also allowed to add 6 extra techmarines.

We don't talk to or play against those people.


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