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-   -   Can 40k ever become popular beyond the tabletop, novels & games? (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/40k-fluff/189794-can-40k-ever-become-popular-beyond-tabletop-novels-games.html)

Savage Savant 06-19-15 01:17 AM

Can 40k ever become popular beyond the tabletop, novels & games?
 
Hello everyone, this is my first post on this forum that I have frequently lurked around for quite some time. I'm a huge 40k aficionado among other Sci-Fi series & franchises (big fan of the Thousand Sons/Tzeentch & very interested in the Emperor's Children/Slaanesh).

Anyway I've been thinking recently if any fellow 40k fans believe 40k could essentially become more popular beyond the tabletop as well as the Black Library books. I'm very aware that itself will probably never become as ingrained in pop culture as Star Wars (for example) for a number of reasons (one being the grimdark nature of the series), however what if Games Workshop were to find other avenues of promoting the 40k lore (not the tabletop) so that more people can become fans of the 40k universe & be more engaged in the lore overall. Maybe a tv show on HBO or Showtime perhaps that was either an anthology series where each season chronicled the adventures of different characters/races in the 40k universe.

I'm aware that a film franchise is unlikely as it would potentially cost a billion dollars more or less, however maybe a tv show & a comic series could help 40k branch out beyond the tabletop, books & games perhaps? I know GW licensed 40k to Boom! studios a few years ago, however it seemed short-lived to say the least.

Anyway I hope I don't get flamed as I didn't see this topic anywhere in the search results. I'd like to get other's thoughts on this topic as I'm very passionate about the 40k lore/universe. My sincerest apologies if this was the wrong sub-forum to place a topic such as this.

Brodingman87 06-19-15 02:11 AM

It depends on what you mean by "beyond"? Like what scope are we talking here.

Dawn of War and Space Marine did a lot to bring 40k to the video game community. But as for as book and film does, in its present state, not a change. 40k reads like a History channel documentary which the mainstream audience finds boring as hell. 40k does have movies: Damnitus and Ultramarines with quite plainly suck. I would love to see The Battle of Macragge done with the budget of Transformers, but in order for that so change there has to be A LOT of rewriting to be even consumable to a wider audience. So 40k references becoming as wide as Starwars or Star Trek, not achance in hell.

hailene 06-19-15 08:54 AM

I think a television series following the adventures of an Inquisitor and his or her scouring the Imperium for heresy, aliens, and mutants would be good. Something like the Eisenhorn series.

Not everyone is in the military. Not everything revolves around combat. I think this would be the best shot at getting some more mainstream attention without delving into unknown fluff territory (aka, making stuff up to satisfy the general population), yet at the same time appeasing fluff readers like us.

I don't think a super grim-dark series would work. Then again, dumbing it down to where all the heroes get to live every day even though 99% of their comrades manage to stop a bullet somewhere in the movie/episode seems a bit... ungenuine for the setting (not that it doesn't happen, but I'm still sad when it does in BL).

Once mainstream appeal is reached, then niche stuff (following aliens, an Imperial Guard regiment, etc.) can be met. More people might be willing to take the dive and check out the rest of the universe when they realize the pool isn't as cold as they initially thought.

el_machinae 06-19-15 08:29 PM

The problem with 40k in a video format is that it's wonky. There's just too much under the hood, and things don't make sense without explanation. In a novel, a paragraph can be used to catch up the audience. But in a movie format, you'd need a horrendous amount of voice-over

hailene 06-19-15 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_machinae (Post 2161146)
But in a movie format, you'd need a horrendous amount of voice-over

I don't think so. Most things are pretty self-evident, I think. Like you can see a tech adept and go "Whoa, this guy probably loves machines because he's more machine than man now".

Other little things aren't super important to know. If someone gets shot up with frenzon, for example, the movie wouldn't have to tell us what frenzon is and how it works. Just have a chemical injector show and the guy go nuts and murder things.

The only tricky thing you'd have, I think, would be the political institutions, some of the Xeno culture (but you can gloss over that), and maybe the nature of psychic powers and the warp.

Getting all the nuanced information in a movie is hard, but getting the point across probably not so much.

Nordicus 06-19-15 11:48 PM

I'm not sure to be honest - I don't think it would work as a movie, but as a TV series? I'm sure it would. It would require a big budget though, to capture the feeling and grandness of it all. I'm talking Game of Thrones big and they don't even show the big fights, due to constraints.

If done right you could tell much of the lore through the episodes there and then top it off with a movie in the end or the like. They would not be able to do the Horus Heresy due to the grandness of it, but I believe they could make some story archs and stand-alone filler episodes in the 41st millenium, leaving the Horus Heresy as a tale of old times.

Will it happen? Most likely not as it's too big of a gamle.
Could it be fun to watch the 41st millenium on the big screen? Hell yes.

Kreuger 06-20-15 07:35 AM

So first, could it work as a movie or tv show? Yes, certainly.

The nearest comparison is the Halo universe. 40K's setting is deeper, wider, and weirder but is still essentially a story about humans in space. So think about the parallels enhanced humans fighting evil aliens and unknowable menaces. Halo has books, video games, table top games, a cartoon series, a tv miniseries (nightfall), and movie (Forward Unto Dawn.) Halo is basically an extrapolation of genesis, so is warhammer.

Ultimately, the devil would be in the details. Let's say GW partners with HBO after game of thrones finished. It would need a plot and interesting or relatable characters. As it has been mentioned, the really tough part would be explaining the depth of the background and working with all the inconsistencies. For example, there is futuristic space travel but spaceships look like cathedrals and the weapons are strangely primitive. Electronics and communications technology seem to lag far behind what we are using today. Advanced technology doesn't jive with massive ignorance and lack of information. The fact that information we would consider fodder for Google is secret, etc. seems inconsistent and damages suspension of disbelief.

hailene 06-20-15 07:52 AM

I think a small exposition at the beginning (think of the beginning of BL novels) set in a Starwars New Hope sort of thing could help. Just a paragraph to explain mankind's constant struggle against the alien, mutant, and heretic. How technology has slid into mystery and religion...that ought to be good enough.

Brodingman87 06-21-15 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailene (Post 2161418)
I think a small exposition at the beginning (think of the beginning of BL novels) set in a Starwars New Hope sort of thing could help. Just a paragraph to explain mankind's constant struggle against the alien, mutant, and heretic. How technology has slid into mystery and religion...that ought to be good enough.

Not a paragraph... Have you ever seen the Youtube series CinamaSins? "Oh boy, reading". No one goes to watch a movie to read, and I bet you haven't even read the essay at the beginning of Starwars. And if you have to read the paragraph to know what's going on it's going to fail.

Exposition should be done like the beginning of Transformers where you show and tell though images and narration.... "Assume this is real, here's the story."

hailene 06-21-15 09:21 AM

I weep for the nation, but I concede people won't like it.

Yeah, just a few scenes of narration ought to do the trick. About the same amount of time, easier viewability, and gets the point across.

Demon of Humanity 06-22-15 12:20 AM

A tv series whether live action or animated most definitely would help

Stormxlr 06-22-15 12:53 PM

Comic books would be a good avenue to start with. Their recent resurgence would easily bring people into the franchise. The format is good at explaining lore without forcing people to read tons of wiki article's or novels.

Kreuger 06-22-15 06:24 PM

Yeah, Star Wars is one of the only films where intro text didn't spell immediate doom.

Maybe Legend is a close second. It's usually a sign of a story to big for the budget, or filmmakers unable to write out film it.

The best way forward is a prologue like transformers our even better, The Fellowship of the Ring.

morfangdakka 06-22-15 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordicus (Post 2161298)
I'm not sure to be honest - I don't think it would work as a movie, but as a TV series? I'm sure it would. It would require a big budget though, to capture the feeling and grandness of it all. I'm talking Game of Thrones big and they don't even show the big fights, due to constraints.

If done right you could tell much of the lore through the episodes there and then top it off with a movie in the end or the like. They would not be able to do the Horus Heresy due to the grandness of it, but I believe they could make some story archs and stand-alone filler episodes in the 41st millenium, leaving the Horus Heresy as a tale of old times.

Will it happen? Most likely not as it's too big of a gamle.
Could it be fun to watch the 41st millenium on the big screen? Hell yes.

I was thinking the same thing a Game of Thrones style tv series would work. This would allow the series to explore many different factions and touch on every race in the series. Each race is fighting for control and power while the shadow of Chaos or the Tyranids coming out and consuming galaxies is ever present. I think a cable channel would have to be willing to give it a good budget but if HBO was willing to take a chance on Game of Thrones with two executive produces that had never done a tv series before there might be another one that would be willing to try with 40k. The big question would be how much would GW want for use of its characters.

ckcrawford 06-28-15 06:45 AM

It has potential to do so with the Heresy. Otherwise it would go all over the place. The main with a show with so much plot and characters is to narrow it down to a few.

However, not sure if it really could. They really need to finish strong in the series if they want this science fiction series to standout in the genre of science fiction lore.

Squire 06-29-15 01:09 AM

I don't know much about making films and TV shows but I imagine making something set in the 40k universe would cost an absolute fortune. Is CGI good enough yet to have believable CGI space marines? Orks? Tyranids?

Anyway, I've often thought The First Heretic could be a decent film. Or the first three HH books trimmed down into a single film, but showing Loken survive (and probably Tarvitz too, I can't help thinking they'll bring him back at some point)

CotC 07-09-15 03:23 AM

GW really doesn't like any of their named characters being used in anything they don't do themselves; it's why, say, Vect had such a small role in his one video game appearance, and why you'll never get Eldrad or anyone like him appearing anywhere. That kinda makes it hard for some people.

GW does, however, let people renting their license come up with new characters, which really did work for DoW and will probably do loads of good for DNA depending upon how they run their story. Boom Studios might be able to get something going, too.

Emperor knows there's enough lore to draw upon and tell original stories or do something cool with.

Primarch Tolu 08-28-15 04:14 PM

It would need to grow up first and also abandon the stale nature of how it does things now. By grow up I mean outgrow it's table top beginnings and not be beholden to them.

Also, I'm not sure if something so ridiculously dark could or even should be made into a TV show. Even something like game of thrones has elements of light and even though it is very bloody you can see a way forwards for the protagonists on the show. Warhammer 40K is just so ridiculously dark that I'm pretty it wouldn't be anything other than absurd if made into Live action form.

A manga esque production of the Horus Heresy could work really well, just not the main 40K story unless they decide to move it on and maybe give the humans a fighting chance.

Just my two cents

Moriouce 08-28-15 08:52 PM

I think Tarantino would make a blast of a movie of the 40k universe. Think from the ork point of view. 😊

Stephen_Newman 08-30-15 12:05 AM

I still reckon something like Eisenhorn would be a great way to start 40K in movies. Most of it does not need explaining that much (sure the Inquisition factions would be hard but you could gloss over them and pass it off in film as some colleagues backstabbing him for a promotion thing (Like Osma did in Malleus)).

I mean how hard can it be to sell the idea of James Bond in space???

Plus you could even do the prologue chapters but as the trailers to the film instead of dragging out the plot too long.

Loli 08-30-15 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen_Newman (Post 2206354)
I still reckon something like Eisenhorn would be a great way to start 40K in movies. Most of it does not need explaining that much (sure the Inquisition factions would be hard but you could gloss over them and pass it off in film as some colleagues backstabbing him for a promotion thing (Like Osma did in Malleus)).

I mean how hard can it be to sell the idea of James Bond in space???

Plus you could even do the prologue chapters but as the trailers to the film instead of dragging out the plot too long.

This, the problem is, is that 40k is it's own world with lots of stuff engrained in its history. So doing a TV series/movie wouldnt work without a core story or something. Eisenhorn works as a stand alone Sci Fi series. Yes its in the 40k universe, but its not a huge part of it if that makes sense, it can stand by itself.

Do that as a proper decent budgeted sci fi series, you have an entry point to then do stuff from that assuming Eisenhorn is a sucess.

Mellow_ 09-06-15 12:50 PM

Dark TV shows aren't a problem. Walking dead has gore, the 300 movies have gore. Game of Thrones has main characters getting killed off frequently and Twitter explodes because of it every time.

A 40K movie would have to be animated but to Hollywood standards for the correct visual effects. A TV series might work but it would be big budget and at least allow plot points to be explained at the right time over 20+ episodes per season.

Plus it would be fairly difficult to have so many post humans walking about. They would need introducing one or two at a time. A few scenes showing their absolute power over the battlefield and combat before showing a company of them taking out a big target in a hugely satisfying and post apocalyptic way.

Doom wolf 09-10-15 05:44 PM

Mmmh, I think of an adaptation of Rogue Trader, in a Serenity style with the budget of Game of Throne....

KINKYWULFEN 10-23-15 03:40 PM

Like you wanna LARP it?


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