Khorne Daemonkin Tactics & Discussion
Since the book is out now, it seemed appropriate to start this thread.
Any thoughts on the book, using the units inside, tactics, and other related musings are all welcome here.
The shortcomings and disappointment with the book have been hashed out already, so I would ask that you please refrain from going down that road in this thread.
Go reap some skulls and drench the galaxy in blood, my slaughter brothers.
Fiddling with the points i came up with this slaughter cult / gorepack list that i think would be pretty fun. I typically play 1000 point games so i used that as the limit.
HQ: Juggerlord with goredrinker and bloodforged armor
CSM (8) - Bolters, plasma gun
Berzerkers (8) - All bolt pistols/ccw
Bikers (3) - 2 Melta Guns
Bikers (3) - 2 Flamers
Hounds (5) x2
Basic idea would be run everything straight up the board for the blood point except the CSM and use them to look for objectives.
Something else that i thought of would be to field a juggerlord without the armor and with the bloodthirster axe instead. Use him with a pack of hounds to hopefully die early on and get the BT.
Musings on the Axe of Ruin:
(This is an axe of Khorne + the transformation into a temporary Bloodthirster)
As I'm sure just about everyone who put a few moments of thought into this item realized, due to the monstrous creatures changing flight mode rules, it may take a while before you're able to charge with this guy.
I came up with a few ideas on how to use this weapon effectively:
1.) It is of course ideal that the bearer of this weapon gets killed as quickly as possible. The best route to achieving that, to me, is a stock Khorne Lord with the Axe of Ruin as the only upgrade/wargear. He will be joined to a unit of Flesh Hounds to scout him up the board.
- Optional upgrade is a jump pack, to make him more mobile during the movement phase or reroll charge distance during the assault phase. This is useful but iffy, because it makes a suicide unit even more expensive.
2) Scout the Lord + Hounds as close to the enemy as possible, with the Lord in front of the hounds. In this situation contrary to our instincts, we want the lord to be the closest unit to a shooting enemy because he will take the wounds first. T4 with a 3+ won't last very long.
- A canny opponent will avoid killing him for as long as possible. The best case scenario (for the KD player) is for the lord to die during the opponent's first turn. That means he will transform during that turn, change flight modes during the KD player's first player turn, and be able to charge during the KD player's second turn if he's still alive. If the opponent doesn't shoot him, he's been scouted 12" away from their forces, giving him a decent enough chance to successfully charge something. 5 WS6 S4 I5 AP2 attacks that cause instant death on 6's are still a threat to anything with a toughness value, so even with these minimum upgrades he's still a murderer.
- He can split off from the hounds during the movement phase, as they aren't necessary for ablative wounds, and he will just slow them down anyway. If he has a jump pack, this isn't the case, but I think we want him to die ASAP anyhow.
3) It could be worthwhile to use the temporary Bloodthirster to capture objectives. It isn't the most satisfying use of this beast, but Maelstrom missions are won or lost based on how many points you have. Even merely revealing a mysterious objective can contribute, with the right cards. Depending on how many objectives you control, adding just 1 more could contribute an additional d3 points to the mix.
4) Probably the least useful, but worth mentioning, is anti-flyer duty. D3 S6 AP2 Ignores Cover (i.e. Jink) vector strike hits + 1 S6 AP2 shot from the Lash of Khorne should strip a hull point from most flyers, and definitely have a good chance of hurting a FMC.
It is possible the newly spawned Bloodthirster will be killed before he can do much of anything, due to the automatic d3 wounds and the bullets he will be attracting like a magnet. That, in and of itself, could be useful because your weaker hounds and bikers and such aren't taking as many shots. If he survives shooting but gets grounded (AND survives that...) then you will be charging as soon as possible and hopefully getting some kills in before the warp calls him home.
Suicide for the blood god, but if your opponent is hesitant to shoot at the lord to transform him into a skullraping maniac, make him pay for his cowardice with as many 6's to wound as you can muster. You know, because that's totally in your control!
Arguably the MVP of the codex: Flesh Hounds
Just thinking of some interesting things to scout up the board:
1) ML1 Telepathy Sorcerer spam: Psychic Shriek spam FTW. Focused on low leadership models that pose a huge threat, like Pathfinders, this could be hilarious. This still leaves you free to charge whatever else you want.
- Combine with the Burning Brand of Skalathrax for extra AP3 wounds
- Has the added benefit of getting a Force Weapon as close to the enemy as possible
2) 2 CAD with 3 Units of Flesh Hounds for 3 CSM Juggerlords, bringing the Daemon Weapons to the table
- Scout those Juggerlords (whose Juggernauts still only cost 35 points) 12" away with the Axe of Blind Fury, the Black Mace, and the Murder Sword
- There's instantly a threat to their warlord (murder sword), anything with a 2+ armor save (axe), and anything with high toughness (black mace)
- You're of course going to have some bikers rushing with these guys, at the very least. Add in rhinos with dirge casters, maulerfiends, spawn, or more flesh hounds for even more mean targets that will be in their face soon enough.
As someone said on the other thread though... probably gunna start seeing a load more inquisitors with skulls stopping that scouting.
TBH I think the out of the book I will not be taking the Bloodhost formation because with the possessed tax (though they are now both daemon of khorne and marked of khorne what makes them a little better), having the restrictive list is just awful. Sure the bonus additional Blood Tithe point is ok, and the additional free 1-4 on the table if casting a higher level power is nice. BUT that additional 1-4 is restricted to just those in the Slaughter Cult formation... who are the garbage of the army :P.
Much better off going for a CAD, even if it is a Daemonkin CAD and buying which ever lord you like (including the 2 new variant BloodThirsters who are NOT unique as some people had been saying) and still having to take 2 troop choices, then buy Heldrakes and stuff as normal. Take Gorepacks for the CSM Bikers and Hounds as they are the only good thing from the book.
HOWEVER as also said in the other thread Rhinos are Fast Attack Choices in this book. This allows a bit of sneakiness to come in with loading up BloodLetters in them to get them down the field that bit faster for only 35pts. Just start them inside. Drive 6". Disembark 6". Run D6". If you need you can of course pop smoke launchers to keep the thing alive a bit longer. But at least it stops all that pesky bolter fire from kill them on T1.
The other sneakier thing I thought of those was a Purge Army with Zombies Hordes. Ally it to a CAD of Daemonkin and you can buy units of 10 Zombies some Rhinos to cart around in. Either using the 6"/6" thing though no running for zombies. Or just driving them to where ever is best for them and disembarking on the next turn.
Well, because I want 3 Juggerlords is why :P.
They can bring those skulls if they want, but I don't play anybody who uses Inquisition so I'm not terribly worried. And if they do, that's just more points they aren't spending on guns or whatever.
The only time I've Fielded daemons was with the old Chaos where you could bring bloodletters and bloodthirsters for cheap and didn't count for FOC.
My first HQ I've chosen was the blood throne, seems pretty straight forward and durable, especially when I put the Blood-forged armour.
I purposely didn't choose the Chaos lord or Daemon Prince, only because they were in the Chaos codex and I wanted something new. I guess I'm just rambling, My first opponent is tomorrow and we're both fielding the Khorne codex.
I'm disappointed that the Helbrute (or bloodbrute as it should've been called) is a heavy choice.
How do you guys feel about the 3 different bloodthirsters that make you purposely magnetize the hell out of the new bloodthirster. But I guess it's for marketing purposes. Which giving them 3 bloodthirsters, makes up for the lack of wargear for the Daemon Prince, I guess???
I'm personally disappointed that they didn't have a Warpsmith / Daemon Engine formation. Though having had a look at the story part of the book you can tell why they don't get Warpsmiths, Chosen and lots of other things.
I don't really know how strong they are. But again personally I think they are to weak for the points cost they have. A 5+ invuln is not strong enough to keep a T6 W5 model alive. Yes it can Jink to keep itself alive at the sacrifice of ranged attacks hitting as often or able to fire at all in the case of Template weapons.
Kinda got to have 1 in the Unfettered Fury position though in case you want to summon one. Though as said above they take soooo long before they can get in to combat (turn they arrive they are gliding, then can then go swooping the next turn, they can then assault on the 3rd.)
oh okay, just saw it, wasn't really paying attention. Anyone else a little confused on why Kharn isn't in the codex?
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