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NathanJD 02-02-15 01:17 AM

1k Vanilla
 
I've been trying hard to make a battle-forged CSM list work at low point levels. But it's... difficult so I'm looking to share my progress and solicit advice. I wish to make actual Chaos Marines(Troops) work as well, so no cultists. I know this puts a ceiling on the list, but I don't mind. This is my latest iteration.

# HQ
Sorcerer: bike, spell familiar, force sword, bolt pistol, burning brand, melta bombs - 130
Rides with the flamer bikes and rolls telepathy for infantry hunting and support. The burning brand is brilliant vs Dark Eldar.

# Troops
5 Marines: plasma gun, bolters, bolt pistols, ccws, champion w/ melta bombs - 103
Rhino: havoc launcher - 47

5 Marines: plasma gun, bolters, bolt pistols, ccws - 98
Rhino: havoc launcher - 47
Takes midfield objectives, providing the bikes a wall with their rhinos.

# Fast Attack
3 Bikes: 2 flamers, champion w/ melta bombs - 85

3 Bikes: 2 melta guns, champion w/ melta bombs - 95
Small hunting units. Turbo boost for maelstrom objectives.

# Heavy Support
Maulerfiend - 125
Probably the first to die, but at least it draws fire from my rhinos.

Sicaran - 135

Predator: lascannons - 135
The tanks are my backfield objective holders and long range anti-tank.

I've learned that enough anti-tank and anti-MC are hardest to fit in. And that taking anything but 5 man troop units is wasteful. It just means more models get swept when the unit inevitably gets into combat. It will be swept because it will rarely be in combat against something of its own choice. I've also been trying the melta gun with not much success. I find the unit rarely make it into combat range to use the melta. Most the time it's just 24" bolter fire that gets used. I am hoping plasma will buff this fire support role that they usually end up playing. Especially vs MCs.

Anti-flier has been pretty rough as well, the Sicaran can only do so much vs av12. Not sure what to do about that though.

Uveron 02-02-15 02:45 AM

I just want to say I have allot of successes in using CSM marines in close-combat. But I do run them in blocks of 10 and with the MoK for Counter-Attack. (30 attacks + Over-watch on Defense and 40 on the Charge).

Its a scary block and sure dedicated assault troops will eat them alive, dedicated assault troops will also die to shooting and are quite offten not the most competitive choice, but the shooty units will struggle to deal with two blocks of 10 marines when at close range.

Mossy Toes 02-02-15 05:21 AM

At 1k points, that honestly looks pretty solid. A good amount of vehicles, committing to it at this level of points; 4 ObSec units thanks to those Rhinos... the only thing I'm not to comfortable with is the being only ML1 on the Sorc. I'd rather shoot for ML2 than take the spell familiar, at that point.

NathanJD 02-09-15 05:59 AM

Thanks for the feedback. I've played a couple games and have made some updates to the list.

The amount of damage I've got off each game with the sorcerer has been fantastic. Shriek + the torrent can take a bite out of most things. However, he is immediately killed afterwards because of the vulnerable position he must put himself in to deal that damage. So I took him off his bike, shoved him in a Rhino, and bumped him up to level 2. This should help keep him alive longer, and shift target priority away from my bikes and maulerfiend to his rhino. The loss of mobility may be missed, but it will take more games to find out.

The troops are doing well in their role of roving fire support. Generally hugging cover and/or objectives while providing 24" fire. As a result they've stayed out of combat. So, their ccws have been dropped.

The havoc launcher just wasn't doing enough for me so they were dropped in favor of some dozer blades to help me with all the cover I've been getting immobilized in. The 48" range would be nice if I weren't always in 24" so the Marines inside can fire. To fire at further away targets would be to waste its combi-bolter.

I think the havoc launcher still has a place on dakka predators and rhinos for blastmaster marines though. I would go for 5 marines with missile launcher in a havoc rhino but no heavies until 10 models :(.

With the Sorcerer gone from the flamer bikes, they're free to revert to their natural state: melta guns. Which is fantastic because I needed more in the list.

Finally the Maulerfiend got lasher tendrils because other things were beating it up a little too easy in combat.

Vanilla 1000
# HQ
Sorcerer: level 2, spell familiar, force sword, burning brand, melta bombs - 135

# Troops
5 Marines: plasma gun, melta bombs - 95
Rhino: dozer blade - 40

5 Marines: plasma gun, melta bombs - 95
Rhino: dozer blade - 40

# Fast Attack
3 Bikes: 2 melta guns, bolt pistols, ccws, melta bombs - 95

3 Bikes: 2 melta guns, bolt pistols, ccws, melta bombs - 95

# Heavy Support
Maulerfiend: lasher tendrils - 135

Sicaran - 135

Predator: lascannons - 135

Mossy Toes 02-09-15 06:40 PM

You mentioning that you don't have enough melta is an argument enough for the magma cutters rather than lasher tendrils, to me. Lasher tendrils don't keep the fellows with meltabombs and krak grenades from ruining your day, or reduce the amount of shooting coming your way.

NathanJD 02-10-15 03:26 AM

Hmm, good point. Although the things I'm having problems with are Wraithknights, carnifexes and thunder hammer/storm shield terminators. Even genestealers are rough, so many rending attacks. That's why I decided to go with the lasher tendrils. Do you have any advice for dealing with these units?

Mossy Toes 02-10-15 04:15 AM

Those were the units I was listing when I was starting to list the only units that Lasher Tendrils would be useful against (well, I said 'Nettes rather than 'Stealers), but erased the list once it started getting long enough that the "only" bit wasn't very relevant--but if you fetch up against them often, by all means, go right ahead and keep that change in the list. As for suggestions... hard to fit in with just 1k points to play with, to get anything unequivocally better than what's already here, really.

I might swap one CSM squad and Rhino for 10 Cultists, just to free up aaalmost enough points for another 3-bike squad with 2 melta, or something (just camping the cultists out of sight behind cover on a home objective). It would be a tight fit and mean some tough choices to free up the last few points, but I like my lists starved and mean rather than glutted with all the option available, if possible, so I think the squeeze would be worth making.

NathanJD 02-11-15 03:43 AM

You've got me to crack on the cultists. Although I spent the points on a a Hell Blade instead of bikes. Paired with the Sicaran, It will actually provide the list some solid anti-air. It doesn't help as much vs heavy armor as more melta would, but its rending autocannons work great vs MCs. I had to strip level 2 and the melta bombs off the Sorcerer to do it, but it really does simplify his existence. Hope to roll shrouding, then torrent and shriek enemies.

At least there is still one actual Marine unit...

Vanilla 1000
# HQ
Sorcerer: spell familiar, force sword, burning brand - 105

# Troops
5 Marines: plasma gun, melta bombs - 95
Rhino: dozer blade - 40

10 Cultists - 50

# Fast Attack
3 Bikes: 2 melta guns, melta bombs - 95

3 Bikes: 2 melta guns, melta bombs - 95

Hell Blade: helstorm autocannons - 115

# Heavy Support
Maulerfiend: lasher tendrils - 135

Sicaran - 135

Predator: lascannons - 135

I've been thinking more about @Uveron 's suggestion. At higher points I might try a unit of 20 with MoK and this guy from the Renegades codex for re-roll hits and wounds on the first round of combat:

Arch-demagogue (warlord): revolutionary, khorne, carapace armor, power fist, melta bombs - 67

Maybe even stick em in a Spartan or Storm Eagle. Not that I have the model for it, but it would be fun to try out. Might even use Fabius Bile to get S5 on the unit, with S6 on the charge from the khorne banner.


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