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neferhet 12-16-14 08:46 PM

Renegades and heretics 1500
 
I'm going to field this list vs space marines (ultramarines TAC list), Chaos marines (unbound obliterator spam and another TAC melee-ish fast list) and Orks (probably twin battlewagon with meganobz + bikers & koptas+ 40-60 boyz )
Need some suggestions. Main problems to me are:
-Will Anti tank be enough?
-Will anti infantry be enough?
-Aircraft are going to hurt me much? (no flyier spam expected)
-Will I have enough board control / will i be reactive enough against fast threats?

Here's the list: Using IA13 - 1500 pts

Renegade command squad
Lascannon
Meltabombs on Heretic
Khorne covenant on Heretic
(80)

Platoon "Soilent Green"

Command squad
20 Renegades, ccw+ pistol
3 flamers, chaos sigil
Demagogue w/ meltabombs
(90)

Squad I
10 Renegades
Militia training
2 plasmaguns
(70)

Squad II
10 Renegades
Militia training
2 plasmaguns
(70)

Squad III
10 Renegades
Militia training
2 plasmaguns
(70)

Veteran Squad "Cannibal Corpses"
5 Veterans
Meltagun
Scouts
(60)

Veteran Squad "Nuclear Deaths"
5 Veterans
Meltagun
Scouts
(60)

2 Medusa Artillery Tank
Breacher shells
(220)

6 Heavy Weapon Squads
all Lascannons
Militia Training
(155)

4 Quadlaunchers Artillery batteries
2 extra crewman
(126)

Baneblade
Militia Training
(500)

---Plan is to join the Arch-Heretic to the Platoon Command Squad and march around the Baneblade up to midfield, supported by the rest of the platoon, to engage in melee those who arrive too near, after a good plasma peppering. Baneblade is so big that with just 6- 8" of movement it should confer Zealot to my midfield units AND the Lascannon squads left behind.
Lascannons and Medusa tanks should handle any armour at 1500, even another superheavy or a Knight or 2, i think.
Quadlaunchers are there for anti infantry duties and to force pinning tests on lousy melee units.
Veteran squads infiltrate and scout move to melt something in turn one or otherwise gives my static list some ability to outflank, be a nuisance and take objectives otherwise out of my reach.
The baneblade...is scary, gives Zealot and shoot some shots, but i feel i coud spend 500 pts in another, more productive way. Still, i owe the model, so fuck the emperor and bring it on!

Any suggestions & answers to my worries above?

GLORY TO CHAOS!!!

NathanJD 12-17-14 12:01 AM

Renegades and heretics 1500
 
Don't lose the Baneblade, it's the most essential part of the list! The biggest problem the renegades codex has is leadership, a flaw it shares with the CSM codex. That giant, indestructible zealot bubble is the best thing chaos could ask for.

Renegades does gives you a lot more ways to fix you leadership than CSM does. I've come to love a command vox on command squad. As the unit has fanatic it rolls 2d6 on its leadership with a re-roll. In a chimera it gives a mobile, hardy >12" radius of ld9-10. Couple that with a sigil and you're back to 3rd edition CSM and LatD. Ignoring one failed ld isn't quite the same as a re-roll but it's better in combat!

Even CSM and daemon units can benefit from the ld bubble! If I remember correctly the wording is, "all friendly units may use..."

That being said, it's suicide to run a shitty horde assault unit without stubborn or fearless. The unit will do a ton of damage on the charge, and its characters will grind down even the toughest of opponents. But you'll lose almost every round of combat. Often by a ton. The purpose of a 3pt model is to act as ablative wounds for something. You know... Blood for the blood god. More sacrifices, etc.

It does like like you're using the unit more as a bubble wrap. I like the use of khorne because it will let you re-roll your melta bomb wounds vs monstrous creatures, a likely predator of your baneblade.

However I think plague zombies might make a better bubble wrap for you. Switching the demagogue to nurgle will give you a more hardy unit. More importantly though, it allows for a larger unit size. 20 sub-guardsmen are going to evaporate before they are able to perform their job of protecting the baneblade. In case you didn't know, the platoon command squad counts towards your 3 minimum units per platoon. So there would be no issue dropping it.

All of your infantry are just begging for chimeras. The plasma guns can both shoot out the top hatch while on the move.

Same goes for the veterans. Infiltrate 18" away, scout 6", move 6", disembark 6" and you're right on top of whatever you want to melta. Maybe even in side arc. Or just extend your reach further into the backfield. Having 2 heavy flamers on the chimera would make hilariously good use out of the extra movement.

To fit in the chimeras, I'd drop the quadlaunchers and an infantry unit. The 4 extra chimeras with heavy flamer + something else will roast some infantry.

The infantry could get by without chimeras if they switched to heavy weapons and cowered in cover. But that's not in the style of this list. Which really seems like an escort to a baneblade.

Overall it look really fun. I'm very interested to hear how it performs.

Uveron 12-17-14 03:59 AM

OK.

I would drop the Militia training and the Plasma Guns and give them Flamers and then put them in chimeras (which has militia training.. thus shooting lasguns out of the tank is better than on foot), and the flamers help keep the tank clear when CC things decide to assault.

But that's just me..

NathanJD 12-17-14 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uveron (Post 1981514)
OK.

I would drop the Militia training and the Plasma Guns and give them Flamers and then put them in chimeras (which has militia training.. thus shooting lasguns out of the tank is better than on foot), and the flamers help keep the tank clear when CC things decide to assault.

But that's just me..

For a cool 105pts too. That does sound like it should be the standard way to run a 10 man renegade infantry unit. An autocannon would be nice, but very optional depending on how much anti air the list already contains. The nice thing about a bs2 autocannon is you can move and snap shot without losing much accuracy. It also gives the unit a better way to take advantage of the av12 front arc. Which is easy to circumvent unless the chimera is sitting far back from its assailants.

Uveron 12-17-14 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NathanJD (Post 1981554)
The nice thing about a bs2 autocannon is you can move and snap shot without losing much accuracy. It also gives the unit a better way to take advantage of the av12 front arc. Which is easy to circumvent unless the chimera is sitting far back from its assailants.

Well, I was pondering a Heavy Bolter as It adds to the shots the Chimera has (I have been building lists with the Heavy bolter on the turret as well)... but with BS2 I also think a missile launcher for the frags may be the best way to add something more to the unit. Its not going to hit accurately (or hard) but it will add more templates.. which my current proto-list concentrates on bringing allot of..

neferhet 12-17-14 08:30 AM

mmh, thanks guys.
Some issues: first, i only owe 3 chimeras, so i'm limited to those.
then, removing the quadlaunchers...i fear that this would leave me uncovered against hordes (greentide comes to mind)?? But i like the flamer chimera idea.
Then, plague zombies...the renegades are already fearless and being zombies they would lose reroll to hit (no khorne),a meltabomb guy and 1 attack each, not to mention the slow and purposeful and Init 2. I know...4+ FnP...mmh.
Also about chimeras, we tend to play with lots of terrain and ruins, so, putting Vets in chimeras would hinder their ability to hide and infiltrate 12" from the enemy. Better use those vehicles to protect the platoon.
Not convinced but willing to give it a try. Let's write it down and see how it feels.

Renegade command squad
Lascannon
Meltabombs on Heretic
Nurgle covenant on Heretic
(80)

33 Plague Zombies
(99)

Platoon "Soilent Green"

Squad I
10 Renegades
Militia training
2 plasmaguns
Chimera (Multilaser + Heavy Flamer)
(125)

Squad II
10 Renegades
Militia training
2 plasmaguns
Chimera (Multilaser + Heavy Flamer)
(125)

Squad III
10 Renegades
Militia training
2 plasmaguns
Chimera (Multilaser + Heavy Flamer)
(125)

Veteran Squad "Cannibal Corpses"
5 Veterans
Meltagun
Scouts
(60)

Veteran Squad "Nuclear Deaths"
5 Veterans
Meltagun
Scouts
(60)

2 Medusa Artillery Tank
Breacher shells
(220)

4 Heavy Weapon Squads
all Lascannons
Militia Training
(105)

Baneblade "Iron Duke"
Militia Training
(500)

-To fit 3 chimeras i had to remove 2 lascannons teams, (but that's ok) and the quadlaunchers (and this hurts my feelings). Now i have a whole lot of bodies that aint going nowere, wrapping the baneblade and 3 infantry units more easily redeployed and safely shooting plasma from the hatch. I put multilasers on chimeras to add some emergency antivehicle/antiair to the lot. Also, if it hits, it will hurt more than heavy bolter.
Might be ok.

Uveron 12-17-14 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neferhet (Post 1981594)
-To fit 3 chimeras i had to remove 2 lascannons teams, (but that's ok) and the quadlaunchers (and this hurts my feelings). Now i have a whole lot of bodies that aint going nowere, wrapping the baneblade and 3 infantry units more easily redeployed and safely shooting plasma from the hatch. I put multilasers on chimeras to add some emergency antivehicle/antiair to the lot. Also, if it hits, it will hurt more than heavy bolter.
Might be ok.

I think this is some good changes, but... I agree the loss of the quadlaunchers is a bit sad, and if I could think of anyway to get them in.. I recommend it!

arcaneshield 12-20-14 09:23 PM

Renegades absolutely has ways to fix your leadership.

Each unit, take, for 5 points, a chaos sigil. A unit that has a chaos sigil auto succeeds on the first leadership check it fails each player turn. There are few instances where you will need to take 2 leadership checks in one turn. And it only comes into play if you fail. So if you get shot at, need to make a check and succeed, you're basically fearless in close combat when they charge you.

neferhet 12-30-14 08:59 AM

Ouch. I got stomped by Chaos Marines with twin land raider and khorne marines + lords, with some sparkled long range support. I just couldn't take the beating and rolled Kill point mission (sigh), also the game ended turn 5 when i was loosing, in turn 6 i would have tied or won...wathever...what i learned:
-lascannons are not a good way to deal with armour,
-heavy weapon squads are too squishy,
-vetran scouts are awesome
-baneblades are good only if: enemy is far away, you don't scatter wildly (12" a gogo), enemy gets to hide behind LoS blocking terrain :biggrin:
-plague zombies are slow as hell

This said, i played as a noob and in avery "easy" mood, but i feel this list should need some more tweaks... i'll try it a couple of time more, then refurbish it a little

Uveron 12-30-14 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neferhet (Post 1989378)
-lascannons are not a good way to deal with armour,
-heavy weapon squads are too squishy,
-vetran scouts are awesome

Care to explain why they are awesome? I have always thought they were expensive for what they are...

Mathammer says it will take a full battery of 6 lascannons to score a pen-hit on a land-raider:
with BS 3, only 1/2 hit.. then only 1/3 pen.. you then need 3 Pens to make sure you explode it. Now if you can somehow get the squad near an ammo-dump so you get some re-rolls to hit you stand a much better chance of destroying it.


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