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Reaper45 11-05-14 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sethis (Post 1946394)
They don't care about tournaments. Which results in poor game balance. Which disappoints players. Which leads to lost revenue. Especially since games like Warmahordes and X-Wing with very tight rulesets have been gaining traction for years now. Which is why it's so insane that they don't seem to care. It just doesn't make financial sense.

If they actually just went to the biggest 5 tournament events in the world, took aside the top 5 finishers for each one, said "We'll pay 20 for you to list the top 10 problems you have with game balance in this edition so we can address them next time" then they'd get enough feedback from people who know what they're talking about to fuel the design team for months.

However they seem to be so... scared... of their own customers opinions that they don't bother, and so disinterested in community engagement that they've given up any attempt to cater to or run events for the broad demographics (Painters, Gamers, Fluff fans). Although at least Painters have Golden Demon and Fluff fans have BL Open Days.

Ultimately, I think the only way they're ever going to achieve anything approaching balance is to completely reinvent the game from the core mechanics up, similar to the 2nd/3rd Ed transition. Maybe move to a 2D6 or D10 system. Either that, or realise that "because it's always been like that" is NOT A VALID REASON TO EVER DO ANYTHING AT ALL, EVER.



Why are people always linking game balance to tournaments? They have nothing to do with each other. Balance is equally as important to casual gamers as tourney goers. Reducing the number of rules arguments and fundamentally broken units is in the best interests of everyone, whether that's 10yr old Timmy playing with his mates on the floor or someone at a top table competition with 500 attendees.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't GW attempt to properly balance the game once? wasn't the overall opinion negative?

GW made their position clear they're a model company, that is something they're supporting, the whole gaming thing is getting low.

Fallen 11-05-14 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper45 (Post 1946242)
So tell me, since you can't paint at your local store only game, how many hours do you spend playing the game? And how many hours do you spend painting models?

Maybe the power gamer was uncalled for, but tell me are you really interested in the actual hobby or just playing games?

So tell me whose GW more interested in having as a customer. The guy who buys whatever because he likes the look of it or the guy looking to enter a tournament whose only going to get eldar, space marine, tau or dark eldar?

I have mentioned this elsewhere, and probably on Heresy as well, but I have not played a game of 40k since 7th was dropped - nor have I painted anything since that time either. But before, when I was having FUN with the game? I probably spent 3-6 hours a week building and painting stuff as I was interested in the army, I only played once a week where I got maybe 1-3 games in that were 1,500 points and under - if I wanted to play a bigger game then I would likely only get one game in at the FLGS. Of the time at the FLGS (no GW store near me until last year, which is pathetically small) I would spend 4-6 hours.

The amount of armies that you or I own is not relevant, the amount of redundancy in the amount of models does, I do not need to own multiple tactical squads, or 300 ork boyz, if I wanted to collect and paint stuffs, we own so much stuff of GW is because we get together with our friends once or twice a week and play a game or two while BSing a bunch of stuff. If GW wants to be a MODEL company, let me know I will stop playing the game; stop spending money; Not care about them; Spend my money on other games that I will actually play; Care for those games; and maybe once a year I will set aside time and money to buy a unit from FW.

I want balance in the game so that there are a wider variety of armies that I can make from a single codex, and have a roughly equal amount of success against a random list. For example I do not want a list where a Mono-God Slaanesh demons army by default has a negative modifier on its winning percentage. I want the game the FORGING OF THE NARRATIVE to dictate to me my winning chances, but by having army builds by default be worse than others in the book BEFORE I PUT THEM ON THE TABLE is inexcusable and will not be tolerated.

When GW effectively destroys the Dark Angel codex of their uniqueness when they released the Space Marines codex is again inexcusable and will not be tolerated.

These are just a couple of examples, there are more - but I will spare everyone (including myself) and stop here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper45 (Post 1946290)
If GW cared about tournaments we'd have balance and an incentive for people to play something other than eldar tau or space marines.

If GW cared about it's customers they would care about tournaments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sethis (Post 1946394)
They don't care about tournaments. Which results in poor game balance. Which disappoints players. Which leads to lost revenue. Especially since games like Warmahordes and X-Wing with very tight rulesets have been gaining traction for years now. Which is why it's so insane that they don't seem to care. It just doesn't make financial sense.

If they actually just went to the biggest 5 tournament events in the world, took aside the top 5 finishers for each one, said "We'll pay 20 for you to list the top 10 problems you have with game balance in this edition so we can address them next time" then they'd get enough feedback from people who know what they're talking about to fuel the design team for months.

However they seem to be so... scared... of their own customers opinions that they don't bother, and so disinterested in community engagement that they've given up any attempt to cater to or run events for the broad demographics (Painters, Gamers, Fluff fans). Although at least Painters have Golden Demon and Fluff fans have BL Open Days.

Ultimately, I think the only way they're ever going to achieve anything approaching balance is to completely reinvent the game from the core mechanics up, similar to the 2nd/3rd Ed transition. Maybe move to a 2D6 or D10 system. Either that, or realise that "because it's always been like that" is NOT A VALID REASON TO EVER DO ANYTHING AT ALL, EVER.

Why are people always linking game balance to tournaments? They have nothing to do with each other. Balance is equally as important to casual gamers as tourney goers. Reducing the number of rules arguments and fundamentally broken units is in the best interests of everyone, whether that's 10yr old Timmy playing with his mates on the floor or someone at a top table competition with 500 attendees.

I agree with a lot of what Sethis says here, In particular the first and last paragraphs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper45 (Post 1946506)
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't GW attempt to properly balance the game once? wasn't the overall opinion negative?

GW made their position clear they're a model company, that is something they're supporting, the whole gaming thing is getting low.

When did GW attempt to balance the game? Balance is something that needs to ALWAYS be worked on with the style of releases that GW does.

I own the game as far back as 4th edition; 5th edition is when I started playing the game, 6th edition is the most balanced of the game (until GW released, Imperial Knights, Stronghold Assault, and Escalation).

The ideal version of the game that I see would be something that would be mostly 6th edition with a lot of key elements from 5th edition (assault from reserves, assault from a stationary vehicle - those being the big ones that I can think of). My ideal version is not what EVERYONE wants to see, but if GW is willing to make an attempt at fixing the things that I am most disappointed with I would be happy.

Moriouce 11-05-14 08:14 AM

I have had this thought for a while and think this is the time and thread to put it in.

During this legal fight in the US against a Company I can't remember, did't GW defend with that they where a miniature-producing-Company thy made collectables? Now ever since I feel the rules and all has gone downhill but the do release more new kits than ever. Are GW trying to live up to their own defence? Many here reacted to their defence with: yeah right! But now it seems everyone complains more and more that GW thinks they can sell new kits without regard to the game.

Nordicus 11-05-14 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moriouce (Post 1946666)
But now it seems everyone complains more and more that GW thinks they can sell new kits without regard to the game.

I disagree with this one I must admit - I think they are thinking more about the armies than ever before at this point. Especially with the last few codices and the coming Tyranid models.

Consdiering that Nids are now getting droppods, synapse-buffers and other goodies to help the army seems to me like they're listening to what players are saying and they are trying to rectify any shortcomings the army has. Combined with the more stable powerlevel of the recent codices (Orks, Space Wolves and Grey Knights in particular) it looks to me like they're thinking more about balance now than they did previously.

Maybe I'm optimistic - But I really like their current approach.

bitsandkits 11-05-14 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moriouce (Post 1946666)
I have had this thought for a while and think this is the time and thread to put it in.

During this legal fight in the US against a Company I can't remember, did't GW defend with that they where a miniature-producing-Company thy made collectables? Now ever since I feel the rules and all has gone downhill but the do release more new kits than ever. Are GW trying to live up to their own defence? Many here reacted to their defence with: yeah right! But now it seems everyone complains more and more that GW thinks they can sell new kits without regard to the game.


I think that they used that defense in the US as its a far more understandable point of reference for a jury and judge to understand, sometimes the non hobbiest has trouble with exactly what GW/40K/Warhammer actually is(some of the hobbiests do too lol)
And from a certain point of veiw the models are collectables, when you decide on your army you have in effect created a "collection" , ok it may not consist of ming dynasty pots or valuable stamps but there is a very real "collection" that goes on, quite a number of people involved in the hobby have models from many years ago, others buy limited editions, others buy anything and everything relating to there army of choice, so its impossible to dismiss that this hobby is very much about buying collectables, that isnt all of the hobby but it is a significant part of it and it really is as essential as building,painting and playing, how else would we know people with 20000 points of guard, or that chap whos collecting a 2nd company of marines ?

i shouldnt comment on the rules as im a very infrequent casual player at best, but im also in the camp of if its broke and you know its broke then fix it with house rules, 40k was and still is as far as i can tell a game to be played between friends on a weekend or evening in someones kitchen/dining room/basement, many chaps seem to take it far too seriously and focus far too much on whats broken rather than what isnt, Despite peoples issues with the games plenty of people for many years have seriously enjoyed playing enough to keep GW top of the pile without ever slipping off or getting seriously challenged.

I feel that we are in a great period for GW, maybe the numbers dont reflect it yet, but i think they may be turning the corner with the current stratergy,dropping the monthly WD in favour of weekly i think was a huge step in getting stuff to market quickly. what will be interesting and telling is how they move forward after the hobbit goes.



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MidnightSun 11-05-14 10:09 AM

317 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by bitsandkits (Post 1946722)
i shouldnt comment on the rules as im a very infrequent casual player at best, but im also in the camp of if its broke and you know its broke then fix it with house rules, 40k was and still is as far as i can tell a game to be played between friends on a weekend or evening in someones kitchen/dining room/basement, many chaps seem to take it far too seriously and focus far too much on whats broken rather than what isnt, Despite peoples issues with the games plenty of people for many years have seriously enjoyed playing enough to keep GW top of the pile without ever slipping off or getting seriously challenged.

I feel that we are in a great period for GW, maybe the numbers dont reflect it yet, but i think they may be turning the corner with the current stratergy,dropping the monthly WD in favour of weekly i think was a huge step in getting stuff to market quickly. what will be interesting and telling is how they move forward after the hobbit goes.

This.

kiro the avenger! 11-05-14 11:41 PM

I think gw focuses on the models because their the first thing you see. Like when a potential customer walks in, they go 'ah that marine looks badass!!!'
They then have to sink 200 into buying a marine list (at least, likely more) before they can even play the fucking game, at which point they realise what a piece of shit the rules are... But they've already sunken 200 bucks in! Who cares!
I would enjoy 40k much more if assault squads didn't just sit down and cry upon seeing grey Knights dirt cheap terminators... I would like to use the riptides I think are badass without everyone looking at me as if I'm the scum of the earth for bringing one to a fun list...

Vaz 11-05-14 11:47 PM


Samules 11-06-14 04:28 AM

GW is doing it completely wrong, there isn't a game store within walking distance of my house.

But seriously that's why I stopped buying their stuff. That and a bunch of new friends into M:TG. I still love the models and paint occasionally but nowhere near as religiously as I used too when I had an awesome store 2 miles away from my house. (If you guys are in Orange County California go to the Portola Plaza GW and say hi to Chris for me) That's also sadly the reason I don't post here anymore, I don't play enough or even have the most recent ruleset so I can't really discuss it. Sigh... -end nostalgia-

Serpion5 11-06-14 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaz (Post 1947586)
Exactly. So we go back to the original question - are GW doing Right?

Meaning they're not doing what you want them to do. :wink:

They're certainly doing better than they were a few years ago.

Vaz 11-06-14 08:03 AM

Better =/= right.

It is a step in the right direction, but they are alienating a good half, if not more of their fanbase. Good rules sell models - as evidenced by tau/dar cropping up everywhere shortly after. And newcrons, And grey knights in 5th. Vampire Counts, Skaven, Ogres, 7th edition high elves.

They were labled broken in some aspects due to unforeseen combinations - a lack of stress testing as it were. By catering to that aspect, people might start fielding things like meganobz, assault squads, berserkers, blodthirsters etc again.

They are learning, such as now allowing 50% lords in fantasy to let you play low level monster mash lists.



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mayegelt 11-06-14 10:01 AM

It would be nice if they released a test army of the rules before they went to print, so people of the WAAC mentality could see how easy they are to break or abuse.
of course they wont because then some people might not buy the books when they do come out, but then again they claim something like 60-70% of people illegally download their stuff anyway.
Personally with most of the books i tend to look at them in store or find someone with a copy and have a gander at it. If i like it i will buy it. If not then i will just try to remember the basics or jot down a few things on scraps of paper to give me a general idea of what the rules for particularly interedting units are.

Submarine 11-09-14 03:35 PM

My issue with GW is that they dont do much to garner custom loyalty. No reward cards, no sales, no seasonal discounts, nothing. They are a premium product that by definition excludes a large number of people and they rely solely on the natural instincts of their customer base be it a desire to collect, or to win battles by having the best units. It wouldn't hurt them to demonstrate a bit of reciprocation.

That aside, I have been involved mainly in fantasy but in general with their products for over 15 years and the models and rules have improved dramatically.

As for the price point, there are a ton of online sellers that undercut GW so there is really no reason to go into a store and buy any of their models at their face value. Their are alternative companies that make hobby stuff like tools and paints that are much more competitively priced.

It still doesn't excuse the cost of building an army, especially when a large section of their customers are children.

bitsandkits 11-10-14 07:30 AM

GW have done loyalty cards before and recently offered a free product and a loyalty based offer for those using the online store when they revamped it and arguably they are directly discounting more products with the current trend of packaged together kits which offer serious savings, but the question wasn't about price, the reality of price is simple, unless you give something away for free you will always exclude a portion of the population, GW can only ever set it's prices at the level that will sustain the company,its not GWS place to make it more affordable it's up to the individual customer to choose to buy or not based on whether they feel it's value for money or not, you can have loads of money and feel GW is a rip off or you can have very little cash and still feel like GW should charge more or anything in between,ultimately if you want to play the games and own the minis you will find a way.



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Fallen 11-10-14 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitsandkits (Post 1951578)
...GW can only ever set it's prices at the level that will sustain the company,its not GWS place to make it more affordable it's up to the individual customer to choose...ultimately if you want to play the games and own the minis you will find a way.

Completely agree with you B&K.:good:

Unfortunately I think we can all agree on that there a lot of illegally downloaded codexs most of which are a condensed format only containing the army choices and upgrades. I think GW can still reduce the amount of pirating from people if they had different options for the books for the game.

I mean GW already makes the small A5 (or so) size books for Dark Vengeance, I cannot see a reason why they do not release that for $30 USD or whatever is roughly half of the hardback rules that they just released maybe a week or two ago?

I can see GW doing the same thing with codexs honestly, having a super cheap codex that can get used and abused during travel and not feel as badly than if one beat the crap out of their hardback codex. (I would be furious)

Especially now with the newer battle forces that are roughly $160+ USD to come with a little codex would be a great incentive to buy them.

mayegelt 11-10-14 10:00 AM

I know it isn't a great solution. But tbh i still think that the hardback copies if bought from GW directly should come with access to a digi copy tied to the persons account.
Personally i have hardback / paper copies of the books i use. But i also have digi copies of the ones i need so dont have to carry 10kg of rule book, 2-3 codex, 1-2 imp armour and all that with me when i go to play someone.
30k is really the killer with that with the 3 heavy books and now 2 redbooks. Having them in digi would be great to have for the saving of my poor back, as well as the risk of if you get mugged the 3 books to replace would be 200.

bitsandkits 11-10-14 11:10 PM

I agree there are alot of illegal down loading of codex, but I don't think reducing the price would make one bit of difference to the overall sales figures, most people who down load like that, are not going to suddenly stop and buy a codex because it has become cheaper,if GW halved the price of the codex books tomorrow the most likely scenario would be that the bloke who was gonna spend 30 on a book will just buy two and the bloke who was gonna down load it does so anyway and feels less remorse because the products perceived value is now half of what it was, people justify essentially criminal activity such as buying counterfeit models from China because they consider GW prices as too high, if that's the bench mark to break the law then realistically GW can't possibly consider reducing the price in the hope people will buy more.



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mayegelt 11-11-14 10:34 AM

I am unsure with the price vs pirate thing.
I actually think if the price was lower they would sell more, however as you said it would probably be people buying more books so maybe getting themselves army books for armies they dont own.
However i do think that some who steal the books would spend a small amount on the codex as it would be less of an army tax to buy it.
I did segest before some time ago that a loyalty system could work for digi copies of things. This would mean that if you got your digi copy of an army book for instance, when they then bring out the updated new edition of the book (so 8th edition or whatever) you should not have to pay as much as the likely chance is that 40% of the book is copy pasted from the previous one with the pictures, timeline, lore, descriptions.

humakt 11-11-14 12:28 PM

From my own point of view I see no justification in buying pirated books or counterfeit models. Primarily its theft, but it also reduces profits for GW and in doing this could eventually lead to them going bust and the end of the game as we know it (far fetched but not unfeasible).

I get the impression from the thread that GW is hated for charging a similar price to other companies for their products. I don't count things like Bolt action as the mini's are just not the same quality. Digital codexes do seem a bit highly priced, but that's the same as e books all round. There is very rarely a significant drop from a hardback to a digital format book relating to price. A codex is still about the same price as an elite unit so not that great an expenses when it comes to an armys cost. Its still less than a PS4 or Xbox 1 game which will generally only be used for 12 months before the sequel replaces it.

As much as I hear on the web that people are leaving in droves, my gaming circle is very active and has not diminished that much, and the tournament scene in the South of the UK is still very active.

mayegelt 11-11-14 03:53 PM

Dont get me started on xbox or ps4 games though (dating back many years of consoles). I still think console owners get ripped off for games. When you have to pay 50 for a game that 1 month later is on PC is 35 and then will likely go on sale on steam for 50% off. Then console players are getting it rough. Espesially as they are using a machine that is equal to an average gaming PC that is 4 years old.
The sad thing comes with the PC ports of console games that are deliberately left with crummy framerates and graphics, so the PC players dont get a better quality game (though assassins creed on ps4 is getting the sxrew job cos it cant be made to be better than the xbox version or xbox ppls will cry).

I think that is enough ranting about computer games from me...

I do agree though that model wise you often get what you pay for. Back in my day when i first started i could buy a pack of about 30 skeletons or 20 space marines or whatever and probably have only spent 10. I know in those 30 years there has been inflation and all that. However compare those models to the ones you get today when you get 10 models for 25. Though the quality of the old beaky mk6 ones was great at the time i am sure that a 3d printer could knock them out today at the same level of detail. But the current models are great (when they arent malformed or arrive in need of repair) and very few models from other companies come close.
That being sad i do like some of the old models more than the new ones. The 90s (i think) Daemonettes are so much better than the newer ones.

Sethis 11-11-14 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mayegelt (Post 1952690)
Dont get me started on xbox or ps4 games though (dating back many years of consoles). I still think console owners get ripped off for games. When you have to pay 50 for a game that 1 month later is on PC is 35 and then will likely go on sale on steam for 50% off. Then console players are getting it rough. Espesially as they are using a machine that is equal to an average gaming PC that is 4 years old.
The sad thing comes with the PC ports of console games that are deliberately left with crummy framerates and graphics, so the PC players dont get a better quality game (though assassins creed on ps4 is getting the sxrew job cos it cant be made to be better than the xbox version or xbox ppls will cry).

Two words: Secondary Market.

You can buy a PC game a month later, for cheaper, and never sell it on. You cannot recover the money you spent on it, because every major release has DRM up to the eyeballs and account-bound codes for every publisher.

On the other hand you can buy a console game new for 50 and then sell it after completing it for 45 provided it's within the first month of release. If you don't have the initial investment, then just wait 2 months and watch the price halve on ebay/pre-owned stores. I haven't bought a game on release day since Deus Ex: Human Revolution and that was an aberration in itself. I just suck it up and buy them 6 months later, as you say, on Steam Sale for a fiver. Because I'm not compelled to spend money on the latest shiny thing.

However that is off topic, so never mind.

Submarine 11-11-14 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitsandkits (Post 1951578)
GW have done loyalty cards before and recently offered a free product and a loyalty based offer for those using the online store when they revamped it and arguably they are directly discounting more products with the current trend of packaged together kits which offer serious savings, but the question wasn't about price, the reality of price is simple, unless you give something away for free you will always exclude a portion of the population, GW can only ever set it's prices at the level that will sustain the company,its not GWS place to make it more affordable it's up to the individual customer to choose to buy or not based on whether they feel it's value for money or not, you can have loads of money and feel GW is a rip off or you can have very little cash and still feel like GW should charge more or anything in between,ultimately if you want to play the games and own the minis you will find a way.

GW is a business and it has a profit margin. It is not selling its products at a price point that is needed to sustain its company, it is selling its products at a price to sustain their profit margin.

It also engages in cynical practices. For example moving buidling rules into a separate book that you have to buy along with the rulebook.

Their price rises are well out of line with inflation and in some countries totally at odds with the exchange rate. Australians for example get a very harsh deal.

No one is suggesting that GW should sell its products for free but it behaves exactly like a company without a true competitor. If it had a clear rival in its market space you would quickly see prices fall.

Einherjar667 11-11-14 06:20 PM

GW finally getting it right?
 
They put the building rules into the BRB (and people whined that they got folded in)

And this thread is about then changing, not their history as a company.

madcore 01-29-15 06:29 PM

For me its the rules....their prices are ridiculous but I could live with it if they weren't so dumb with the rules..they just have no clue how to create a balanced game...

It.s a shame really. That factor alone makes me wonder if I should just stop playing...they obviously do not care about us, why should I give them my money.

And that's coming from a guys who as CSM, AM, DEAMONS, NECRONS and Eldar armies. I have not spent a single dollars on them in months and I am starting to think about selling some stuff.

I have always been a huge GW fan but i just got tired of being screwed. Their models are amazing, the best in the industry, just a shame their army balance suck.

They should go hire the rules writer over at privateer press. They would know what a balanced game looks like.

neferhet 01-29-15 07:22 PM

Believe me or not, i actually enjoy the game because it is NOT balanced :D

ntaw 01-29-15 07:23 PM

The recent books have been pretty balanced (and I'm a BA player with more Assault marines than Tactical), and what the Necron book looks like seems a lot nicer than the last one. Granted, I don't play the game to be overly competitive (though I do like winning of course). The whole atmosphere of the game is what draws me to it, and while there are sometimes hilariously angering oversights by the GW team it seem to me that only the people who care about winning more than playing seem to be upset about an 'unbalanced' game. There's 'overpowered' options all over the place, it's up to us to use or not use them and accept responsibility for what it does to the game for our opponents accordingly.

Ultimately you like it or you don't, but GW has stated they don't give a fuck about making a 'balanced' game.

jin 02-26-15 03:18 AM

Here is what I think is going to happen with the new 30k/40k release:

The scarcity of some units and equipment will effectively change how armies are deployed.
GW will use scarcity in terms of the narrative to influence army compositions
in order to boost sales of unsold models, to open up new ranges, and also to cut down on the production pressure on old kits that people abuse like wave serpents, effectively reducing their numbers in any army to one for every three troops choices (or something to that effect) which will do two things 1 - sell more infantry which now on the table may not seem so useful and 2 - flood ebay with flash painted serpent spam as these idiots dump the good stuff to suck up whatever next expensive new card trick will win their thoughtless asses games (insert magic the gathering reference here).

just my read.

thoughts?

return to armies as collections representing narrative conditions will be a happy by-product as well...

if they do this right and push prices down
and if this TPP which sux in every way imaginable makes GW able to ship privately anywhere for cheap,
then they might win both at the hobby and at the corporate level.
in which case, if you see indicators of this story playing out, buy stock i guess.
i will be buying an old used wave serpent - don't have one.

Vaz 02-27-15 12:25 AM


ChaosRedCorsairLord 02-27-15 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaz (Post 2050866)
Just saw this thread again.

Think I summed it up perfectly before;

http://giant.gfycat.com/TalkativeDaz...allowaycow.gif

Yep, they're still fucking it up. My hope is somehow FFG will get the rights and take over 40k and fantasy.

jin 02-27-15 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vaz (Post 2050866)
Just saw this thread again.

Think I summed it up perfectly before;

http://giant.gfycat.com/TalkativeDaz...allowaycow.gif

great gif!

yes, the new face of GW.
i remember when gav thorpe was the kid.
perhaps it is true and the emperor lives,
only he must wait until the wolf riders of wallstreet
blow all their coke money and dump the sector in a panic.

then a kickstarter - "hobbyist union to save GW"!
open source everything to 3d printers
and manage everything through narrative
returning to outrider system endorsed 'live' local narrative tourneys
as eventually this move to content engineering can translate into holograms and other far-off simulation tech (imagine 40k played like chess in episode 4 Star Wars for those old enough to remember that being cool)...

just saying.
this is a multigenerational game environment, or at least that was the mood when i was young.
old brothers and cousins taught the younger, gave some minis, got 'em started and then the next generation is recruited in and so on...
now, well, ... now.

Words_of_Truth 02-27-15 11:40 AM

Well considering I'm refusing to buy anything in relation to warhammer fantasy until they finally drop the bomb and present the reboot I think they are messing up rather than getting it right. Why would I buy something that may be useless in a month or two time. As for 40k it's a bit hit and miss, I think they missed some opportunities to introduce more to the necrons but then they introduce Harlequins as a separate force, yet they still haven't done anything with Sisters of Battle.

Nordicus 02-27-15 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Words_of_Truth (Post 2051130)
yet they still haven't done anything with Sisters of Battle.

I was wondering how long it would take before this argument came up again - It's been almost a week since someone complained about that army not being re-released.

I think they're on the right path personally - I'm excited for each Friday as new stuff comes out and the pace they have going currently is really nice. It always takes time to adjust to a new path, but I like their current agenda and if they keep improving then we should see some interesting results in the coming year or two.

As with everything, they don't get everything in the first try - But painting tutorials, news every week, package deals where you save money and a focus on getting more of the less known armies out there seems good to me. Not to mention the absolutely staggering quality of their new plastic minis.

I don't think about pricing in this hobby, as it has always (and will always be) a expensive hobby. I care enough about rules to see some irregularities, but I don't play tournaments so I don't care about that. As long as my games with my friends and my gaming group are fun, that's all I care about.

Uveron 02-27-15 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nordicus (Post 2051138)
I think they're on the right path personally - I'm excited for each Friday as new stuff comes out and the pace they have going currently is really nice. It always takes time to adjust to a new path, but I like their current agenda and if they keep improving then we should see some interesting results in the coming year or two.

As with everything, they don't get everything in the first try - But painting tutorials, news every week, package deals where you save money and a focus on getting more of the less known armies out there seems good to me. Not to mention the absolutely staggering quality of their new plastic minis.

I don't think about pricing in this hobby, as it has always (and will always be) a expensive hobby. I care enough about rules to see some irregularities, but I don't play tournaments so I don't care about that. As long as my games with my friends and my gaming group are fun, that's all I care about.

I have to agree, the world is not a perfect place. But the Friday email from GW always makes me happy and when I am working the day-shift its the email I wait on all day, and when working nights its the first email I open up when still in bed at 4 in the afternoon.

Sure it costs a bit, but not that much when compared to my other hobbies and I am still using (and re-using) alot of the stuff I brought in the 1990's. Unlike.. well anything I own..

GW is not Finally Getting it Right. Because the have been doing it Right since the 1980's.. My life is a happy place because of the product they sell.

bitsandkits 02-27-15 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Words_of_Truth (Post 2051130)
I think they missed some opportunities to introduce more to the necrons but then they introduce Harlequins as a separate force, yet they still haven't done anything with Sisters of Battle.

to be fair the necrons did get possibly the biggest 40k release of all time maybe only a close second to the dark eldar last time around, they really didnt need anything, and arguably the harlequins were lacking representation vs there popularity, as for sisters well, i suppose its a hard pill to swallow for the small number of fans that they dont have new minis, but sometimes you have to realize that sisters are not even as important as clowns in space, imagine that for a moment, your army isnt even important enough to warrant new stuff ahead of elves in leotards wearing multicoloured wigs.



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Nordicus 02-27-15 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitsandkits (Post 2051186)
imagine that for a moment, your army isnt even important enough to warrant new stuff ahead of elves in leotards wearing multicoloured wigs.

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Matcap 02-27-15 03:17 PM


Words_of_Truth 02-27-15 03:32 PM

I was just using it as an example of hot hit and miss things are in regards to releases, I wasn't trying to provoke anything.

jin 02-28-15 03:24 AM

The better quality of plastic miniatures is like the better quality of neurophenomenology -
both are directly due to advances in fundamental (materials) sciences. GW deserves no more credit for their plastic models than does a dentist for the spectacular tooth replacement he can image in his office and then order online. One must separate the horse form the horseman, here.

GW is like every other institution into which trust was placed and from which all the lifeblood has - in the course of my lifetime - been drawn.

These are the golems of ancient magic, armies of self-assembling selfish-genes.
And, all is laid to waste in their path...

Frankly, this is as immersive a game as is American football or FIFA.
As it has been ruined similarly, by a similarly especially predatory thread of humanity,
it is no mystery that they should proceed similarly - engolemed, now a machine pursuing nothing other than the self-serving satisfaction of its 'directors' and 'investors' - parasites.

Money, after all, is the key to undoing this mythos - fiat currency is more a fantasy than a Sister of Battle. I have known some Sisters, they were merely born too early. I have never seen paper money worth anything on its own. It takes a zombie or a trained animal to make that happen.

GW business minds may be marginal from mainstream neo-classical Keynesian-Friemanian neo-shylockism to recognize that long term and stability means caring for the earthen supports rather than the heavenly pleasures.

That being said, what in the 40k universe is more heavenly than Sisters of Battle and Inquisition vs. killer (elven) clowns in space?

The middle path, my friends...

Then again, see fabulous Dicaprio GIF, above, for reality check.

Einherjar667 02-28-15 03:33 AM

I am with Uveron 4000%, and he's getting rep as soon as I get back to my computer tomorrow. I love what GW has been doing, Warhammer 40k saved me from one of the darkest periods in my life, it pulled me up from a toxic bout of prolonged depression and deep anxiety and I haven't fallen back into it since. I have a world to escape into, armies to mold with my imagination, skills to develope, releases to look forward to, worlds and adventures to read about, and like minded peers to interact with.

I am a happier person today thanks to Warhammer.

jin 02-28-15 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Einherjar667 (Post 2052194)
I am with Uveron 4000%, and he's getting rep as soon as I get back to my computer tomorrow. I love what GW has been doing, Warhammer 40k saved me from one of the darkest periods in my life, it pulled me up from a toxic bout of prolonged depression and deep anxiety and I haven't fallen back into it since. I have a world to escape into, armies to mold with my imagination, skills to develope, releases to look forward to, worlds and adventures to read about, and like minded peers to interact with.

I am a happier person today thanks to Warhammer.

man I am with you completely.
this is my go to crafty space - i am not into fantasy football and other pure spectator sports trivia.
especially i enjoy the modeling and collecting and the theater and most of all
the most rewarding part of 40k is that people learn how to talk about the rules that govern their actions, and they learn to do it civilly, reasonably, openly, and discursively (rather than violently and directly).
people learn to use context to their advantage, to employ limited resources in the satisfaction of goals, and make the most of setbacks...
still, that is warhammer.
not GW.


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