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-   -   Advice needed: Daemons versus Imperial Knights (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/general-40k/149378-advice-needed-daemons-versus-imperial-knights.html)

Nordicus 04-11-14 09:15 AM

Advice needed: Daemons versus Imperial Knights
 
Greetings heretics!

I'm in a bit of a pickle that I cannot crunch - And as such, I could use the collective brainstorm that is Heresy!

By now it's only a matter of time before someone in my battlegroup brings along a Imperial Knight. I will keep my opinions of this model to myself, but I have to face the facts; It will come at some point.

The problem is that, as a Daemon player, I simply can't find a counter to it. As far as I understand it, and keep in mind I haven't played apocalypse so I might be wrong, the following is true regarding it:

- Its a 13/12/12 walking behemoth, so it cannot be exploded, but takes D3 HP instead. It has 6 HP.
- It has a STR D chainsword. STR D ignores cover, armor and invulnerable saves. It also causes multiple wounds.
- It can have a 4++ on 1 side of it, which has to be decided each turn.

Usually I either shoot a unit in the back with STR 5/6 Tzeentch psykers or assault a vehicle to kill it. The way I see it, both those options are null and void.

- I can maybe glance it from behind with psykers, but that's not a valid strategy. It's not stable enough to count on.
- I cannot assault it with my Daemon Princes, as they will completely destroyed by the STR D weapon.
- I cannot even put a screamerstar as a last resort as the STR D ignore invulnerable saves.

The only option I see at this point is to ally in some CSM for this one particular unit, but that breaks my daemon-heart as I prefer to play pure Daemon.

Anyone got a golden idea or some kind of tip regarding this unit? What am I missing?

MidnightSun 04-11-14 09:33 AM

317 Attachment(s)
Knights can't realistically do anything to Flyers or Flying Monstrous Creatures. As such, Daemon Princes of Slaanesh are your guys - they fly into rear/side armour (try and get one Prince in each facing so at least one of them negates the Ion Shield) and do their Str6 hits plus Vector Strike, then keep on Flying while the Knights try and shoot them down with Heavy Stubbers. Sure, you won't be killing them in one turn, but you'll probably do a couple of Hull Points here and there and take very little damage in return. Once they're down to two or three Hull Points left, then land and go for the charge since you're higher initiative. If you don't kill him, he'll kill you, but if he's weakened on Hull Points then a pair of Princes using Smash should certainly finish him off.

Nordicus 04-11-14 09:53 AM

I did consider this, but it is solid advice - Thanks!

However, my fear with this strategy is is that the opponent will see this as the only weakness and simply convert all of his firepower to bringing down these Daemon Princes. After all, I'm committing between 600-900 points to bring down a 370 point unit which can backfire pretty badly.

It is a strategy however, and at least one way to handle it.

humakt 04-11-14 10:40 AM

How about plague bearers? Their weapons have armour bane so with a couple of big squads you can potentially glance it to death.

Nordicus 04-11-14 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humakt (Post 1671625)
How about plague bearers? Their weapons have armour bane so with a couple of big squads you can potentially glance it to death.

A valid point, as they always glance on 6's with "Touch of rust". However, 2 things sprung to mind:

1) They're incredibly slow and can easily be maneuvered around.

2) If I charge with 20 of them, according to my math, I would do roughly 3 glancing hits (after to-hit and to-penetrate rolls are made). If the guy with Imperial Knight saw this coming, he would put the shield up and grant him a 4++ on his front armor. He would then save half of of the glances, resulting in 1-2 glances. After this, he would cause so many wounds that I would (with almost certainty) fail demonic instability and get completely butchered by the gods. As I don't know what the initiative of a Imperial Knight is, I'm not sure if I get all 40 attacks on the charge either.

On the other hand, I could get lucky. But since it's only glances, I can't even hope for a weapon destroyed or stunned result, which would save my bacon.

Creon 04-11-14 11:15 AM

The downside to assaulting it with plaguebearers is it's gonna kill quite a lot every turn, what with D weapons and stomp, and if and when you kill it, all the plaugebearers die for the catastrophic detonation. I think the shield is only for shooting attacks.

Nordicus 04-11-14 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Creon (Post 1671649)
I think the shield is only for shooting attacks.

If it is, this certainly changes things - In particular for the "Daemon prince spam attack" strategy. It was my understanding that it's simply a 4++ on one side, regardless of the type of attack.

Ryu_Niimura 04-11-14 11:35 AM

No it only works against shooting, in cc the Knight is pretty vulnerable. I like the idea of the big blob of Plaguebearers, just DS of your Plague Drones with a Herald tucked in there somewhere and you've got a unit that won't die to the knights shooting and will rip it to pieces in return. Also you can tarpit it with a big unit of Nurglings like there's no tomorrow^^.

Nordicus 04-11-14 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryu_Niimura (Post 1671681)
Also you can tarpit it with a big unit of Nurglings like there's no tomorrow^^

How would this work? Wouldn't they be torn to pieces by the Str D weapon and Demonic Instability?

Ryu_Niimura 04-11-14 12:09 PM

Argh that's right, Daemonic Instability will most likely be the end of them. (or not if you have a hand in rolling snake eyes xD) I'm pretty sure there's alot of other more viable options for tarpitting a knight, just remember that it's the stomp attacks you should be watchfull for since he's unlikely to do much with his Strength D weapon as he only has 3 attacks. (not 100% sure on that, could have been 4 but that hardly matters)


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