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Protoss119 03-27-14 10:02 PM

Feral and Feudal Guard
 
Reading over Dark Heresy: The Inquisitor's Handbook again, I notice more than a couple of references to Imperial Guard regiments being raised from Feral worlds, with one passage claiming that "regiments raised on feral worlds (and even a few death worlds and the more unstable feudal worlds) are highly sought after by the Munitorium and represent that world's only tithe to the Imperium, such is the value placed in their fighting stock." (pg. 62) That same passage mentions that, while most of these regiments are heavily drilled into accepting Imperial Guard tactical doctrine, a few are allowed to keep much of their "old ways". The book makes references to levies on feral and feudal worlds, such as Monrass, Endrite, Fedrid, Volnox, Dusk, and Iocanthos.

My question is, how is this supposed to work? At least one older source (Rogue Trader, pg. 134) claims that feudal worlds in particular produce poor material for the Imperial Guard due to the "culture shock" of learning one's place in the galaxy, but it would seem Inquisitor's Handbook contradicts this assertion. How would a feral regiment handle tanks and other vehicles, and what kind of vehicles might be available to them, if any? What would they do for leadership? I imagine that, on feudal and feral worlds, the line between civic and military leadership would be very blurred or nonexistent, so unless the Departmento Munitorum provides its own sergeants and lieutenants (which seems likely), the Administratum would end up levying the planet's domestic leadership as well - tribal chiefs and feudal overlords, that sort of thing. As well, it is mentioned that the Calixis Munitorium ensures the loyalty of Endrite "head-hunter" regiments "with a deployment of their least subtle Commissars and a sizable contingent of Imperial preachers." (pg. 62)

Finally, what kind of aesthetic can one expect out of feral and feudal regiments? I feel like I'm answering my own question in a sense here, but would they be slapped with the same Flak armor and M35 M-Galaxy pattern lasgun that almost every other regiment receives or seems to receive, or is there an amount of leeway involved? I sense conversion opportunities...

hailene 03-27-14 10:21 PM

The Imperial Guard Codex covers this as well.

Remember, the Guard is pretty broken up into specialties. Armored regiments, drop regiments, artillery regiments, ect.

I imagine using feral world troops as some sort of light recon or close quarters assault troops.

Is there culture shock? Heck yes. The las gun is pretty simple, and they often have months if not years between their Founding and reaching their first war zone, thanks to the strangeness of Warp travel.

Culture shock is the name of the game. Open sky is pretty frightening to a Hive-slummer who has always lived underground.
~~~~

As for their aesthetic...anything you want. I mean, feral worlds cover a lot of ground. It could be pre-stone use all the way up to the iron age. Lots of variety there.

Protoss119 03-28-14 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailene (Post 1646058)
The Imperial Guard Codex covers this as well.

Yeah, I just found the section in the Codex that deals with the training of regiments. I can't believe I missed that. Still, for the most part, it looks like the Munitorum handles training of both soldiers and officers, so that answers that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailene (Post 1646058)
Is there culture shock? Heck yes. The las gun is pretty simple, and they often have months if not years between their Founding and reaching their first war zone, thanks to the strangeness of Warp travel.

Culture shock is the name of the game. Open sky is pretty frightening to a Hive-slummer who has always lived underground.

Gotcha. So culture shock is not a significant factor in the raising of regiments. The Imperial Guard codex mentions that and also the shock of fighting on foreign worlds, both of which are ground out during training.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailene (Post 1646058)
As for their aesthetic...anything you want. I mean, feral worlds cover a lot of ground. It could be pre-stone use all the way up to the iron age. Lots of variety there.

At first, I thought that the Munitorum or Administratum would enforce some kind of armor or uniform standard on feral and feudal regiments, but then I realized there's no way they could do that. They can't even do so to the other classifications of worlds.

I guess this is a hard question for me to ask because there's no one model of a feral or feudal world, and so I could just answer the questions myself on a planet-by-planet basis, but even so.

I was also curious about how status on a feudal or feral world would translate into rank in the Imperial Guard, but it seems to go from local to Munitorum standards. I bring this up - and the IG Codex mentions this too - in the case of Rough Riders; it is mentioned that on some worlds, mounts are reserved for the elite classes and the rulers of society, which would more likely than not be the case on a feudal planet. I was wondering about possible friction between officers and feudal-world Rough Riders, who until they were levied were part of the upper class of their world, be it absolute ruler or just the owner of a feudal estate, but I guess their training could grind that out, too.

I will of course immediately seize upon the chance to have Crusader knights charging Tyranids.

hailene 03-28-14 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protoss119 (Post 1646178)
So culture shock is not a significant factor in the raising of regiments.

Aye, they try to put regiments where their specialties can be used for maximum effect...but this IS the Imperium of Man. You're going to have Valhallan on desert worlds and Catachan troopers slugging through Hives. That's just how the dice roll. Or how the Adminstratum clerk handles the cogniators, I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protoss119 (Post 1646178)
I was wondering about possible friction between officers and feudal-world Rough Riders, who until they were levied were part of the upper class of their world, be it absolute ruler or just the owner of a feudal estate, but I guess their training could grind that out, too.

You get a lot of this cultural conflict. Couple of examples stick with me from the Gaunt's Ghost series (very mild spoilers for Sabbat Martyr and His Last Command, be warned!):

So in Sabbat Martyr the local planet the Ghosts are fighting on have a restriction on flame weapons: within the grounds of the city, only officers of the local PDF could use flame weapons. The Guard stationed on the city had to do without.

I can only assume this flew because the local PDF's leader (a Marshall) outranked the Guard's commander (a colonel). I'm sure if it went the other way around, the Guard commander would have told him to shove it. Barring the need to play nice and keep everyone happy.

Though, in the end, the Guard commander countermanded the local laws and supplied his troopers with flame weapons when things started getting bad, anyway.

In His Last Command, a HEAVILY aristocratic light support vehicle regiment did some unorthodox decision making: when things got hot their commanding officer left the field of battle because he was too valuable to lose. Well, that didn't sit well with the Commissariat, and one commissar mentioned that, in all likelihood, their commanding officer would be shot without trial for abandoning his post.

So that's one way it could end. Either they shut up and place nice, or face the consequences. The Guard isn't exactly adverse to stepping on some toes (or necks!) to get their way.

locustgate 03-28-14 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailene (Post 1646058)
Culture shock is the name of the game. Open sky is pretty frightening to a Hive-slummer who has always lived underground.

The images of hive cities I've seen shown that most of them are above ground. Usually it's the underhive that is below ground, I wouldn't consider that slums has they are far more akin to wilderness. Although I agree about being afraid of open sky actually in the 1st Macharium book, Angel of Fire, the main character mentioned that he felt far more comfortable inside a Baneblade as he had something above his head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protoss119 (Post 1646178)
Yeah, I just found the section in the Codex that deals with the training of regiments. I can't believe I missed that. Still, for the most part, it looks like the Munitorum handles training of both soldiers and officers, so that answers that.

True that the Munitorum trains them but the trainers tend to be from the same world so eventually their training can go astray from the standard regiment.

hailene 03-28-14 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locustgate (Post 1646978)
Usually it's the underhive that is below ground, I wouldn't consider that slums has they are far more akin to wilderness.

How so? It's man-made caverns and shafts (as per the Necromunda rulebook).

I'd be interested in hearing the difference between "wilderness" and "man-made slum".

Grabbing some definitions from Merriam-Webster.com:

1. an area of a city where poor people live and the buildings are in bad condition

2. a densely populated usually urban area marked by crowding, dirty run-down housing, poverty, and social disorganization

Both sound like the underhive to me.

locustgate 03-28-14 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailene (Post 1647834)
How so? It's man-made caverns and shafts (as per the Necromunda rulebook).

I'd be interested in hearing the difference between "wilderness" and "man-made slum".

Grabbing some definitions from Merriam-Webster.com:

1. an area of a city where poor people live and the buildings are in bad condition

2. a densely populated usually urban area marked by crowding, dirty run-down housing, poverty, and social disorganization

Both sound like the underhive to me.

Night Lord book, one with the crown, and the 2nd or 3rd smurf book described the lowest underhive as being yes a man made cavern but one which had pockets of human life, i.e. frontier towns, with uninhabited dangerous and/or uninhabited areas in between settlements, i.o.w. a wilderness, of course this can vary with hives AND the 'towns' could be like a slum.

EDIT: You seem to suggest that the underhive is 100% populated.

hailene 03-28-14 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locustgate (Post 1647858)
You seem to suggest that the underhive is 100% populated.

Not at all. There's definitely portions of the underhive that is uninhabited.

And as you said, there are slums (or 'towns' that you consider to be similar to a slum) in the underhive.

And thus there are hive-slummers that live underground.

Theoretically (and almost guaranteed at least ONE in the trillions of underhiver slummers) would have lived in the underhive their entire life, and therefore never had seen the sun or open sky directly.

And that's all I claimed. Good?

locustgate 03-28-14 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailene (Post 1647978)
Theoretically (and almost guaranteed at least ONE in the trillions of underhiver slummers) would have lived in the underhive their entire life, and therefore never had seen the sun or open sky directly.

And that's all I claimed. Good?

That there are slums in the underhive yes that all the slums are in the underhive no. A hive tends to be that if you aren't at the top then you are in the slums.

hailene 03-28-14 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by locustgate (Post 1647986)
That there are slums in the underhive yes that all the slums are in the underhive no.

Ah, Locust....you're so...yourself.

Yup. Okay, good. We're clear.


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