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Serpion5 01-11-14 10:31 AM

New Tyranids, my first Impression
 
Okay, got my pre-ordered tyranid bundle today, and have spent a good portion of the day reading. Having been spoiled by false promises of the rumour department, I can admit to a few initial disappointments, but overall I am satisfied with what GW has produced for us.

First up, things that are gone.

Some special Characters. Namely the Parasite of Mortrex and that pain in the ass Doom of Malan'tai. Will I miss them? Frankly, no. Both of these creatures had amazing potential, but every time I fielded them I found one of two things. Either they would dominate the game, or flop in a single turn. Fun? Sure. Reliable? No. We don't need them.

Other units. The Ymgarl genestealers have disappeared from the army list, being reduced once more to a fluff box on the genestealer page entry. Some might be sad to see these go, I have mixed feelings. They were a fun fluffy unit to play and could quite often turn the tide but on the whole I don't think they are a too big loss. More people might cry about the disappearance of the mycetic spore. Especially those like me who went to pains to convert models for them. :laugh:

But again, they're not really essential nor were they particularly useful but for the Doom of Malan'tai...


What's back? Depends on what you mean by back. Granted the haruspex and exocrine aren't new creatures, but this is their first appearance in a codex as playable units for 40k as far as I am aware. Other long time veterans may also recognize the name of The Red Terror, who has returned as an upgrade available to ravener broods.

What's new? Lots of things... :shok:

How about we start with the long awaited answer to the question how the fuck are we supposed to deal with flyers??? Well the answer swoops down in the form of the Hive Crone, a cousin to the harpy adapted for smashing enemy flyers from the air. Literally. The thing has spikes along its belly and totes a S8 vector strike. It also has the ability to drool on its ground enemies, again literally, via its aptly named "Drool Cannon."

The harpy itself remains unchanged from what it could do previously, with both its main weapons still being blast weapons it still can't hit air targets for squat. I doubt we;ll be seeing much of her in the skies now that her more appealing sister has put in an appearance.

The exocrine I can definitely see being popular. Why? When was the last time tyranids had a large blast weapon with AP2? Yea... Hey Imperial players, remember all those laughs you had when you were dropping demolisher templates on our swarms? Well it's about to be Fuck you time...

The haruspex I am less impressed with, for all its fancy tricks it is still a slow monster that has to plod across the battlefield to really come into its own. Like the harpy, I think it's destined to be outshone by its better in general sibling.

Warlord traits are a nice addition, and all of them are refreshingly useful in most average games. Like the ability to turn any forest you get close to into a death patch, or deconstruct enemy cover saves before the battle starts. :wink:

Instinctive behaviour took a small adjustment and... well, don't leave homagaunt or carnifex broods unattended too long, lest they eat each other... This fun little tweak makes synapse that bit more pivotal without being a complete hindrance, as there is only a small chance that something that drastic will actually occur. Still... :unsure:

The wargear section was nicely fleshed out and brought up to 6e standard, with every bioweapon being granted its own ap and special rules and whatnot. And on a minor note, spore mine movement is no longer random. You read that correct. :grin:

We also now have a selection of Hive artefacts, pieces of bio engineered wargear better than the average biomorph selections, such as a nifty set of pincers granting preferred enemy to the first type of creature they kill, or the Ymargl Factor, which allows one of your characters to mutate its body each turn similar to how the afore named genestealers could in the old book. 2+ Save Tyrant one turn, 6A Tyrant the next? Yes please... :spiteful:

Psychic powers are now restricted, no longer can we select Biomancy, Telepathy or Telekinesis. I'm okay with this, as the Hive Mind Powers are not exactly as useless as they used to be. Plus the fact that your winged Hive Tyrant could potentially be toting a Warp Blast Warp Lance combo as a result, this gives you a second (and awesome) anti air option if Luck is on your side. :chuffed:

There is a lot I still haven't covered, but I'm sure plenty of others can see what I've missed or overlooked. I'm expecting my first game tomorrow so I will be able to give some more insight then. :bye:


Anyone else care to ask or share their own thoughts here?

kickboxerdog 01-11-14 11:21 AM

ive not got the book but want a nid army, one question is there any rules that allow stealers to outflank and charge or oare mine going to stay on my shelf lol

Stephen_Newman 01-11-14 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1502945)
Okay, got my pre-ordered tyranid bundle today, and have spent a good portion of the day reading. Having been spoiled by false promises of the rumour department, I can admit to a few initial disappointments, but overall I am satisfied with what GW has produced for us.

First up, things that are gone.

Some special Characters. Namely the Parasite of Mortrex and that pain in the ass Doom of Malan'tai. Will I miss them? Frankly, no. Both of these creatures had amazing potential, but every time I fielded them I found one of two things. Either they would dominate the game, or flop in a single turn. Fun? Sure. Reliable? No. We don't need them.

Other units. The Ymgarl genestealers have disappeared from the army list, being reduced once more to a fluff box on the genestealer page entry. Some might be sad to see these go, I have mixed feelings. They were a fun fluffy unit to play and could quite often turn the tide but on the whole I don't think they are a too big loss. More people might cry about the disappearance of the mycetic spore. Especially those like me who went to pains to convert models for them. :laugh:

But again, they're not really essential nor were they particularly useful but for the Doom of Malan'tai...


What's back? Depends on what you mean by back. Granted the haruspex and exocrine aren't new creatures, but this is their first appearance in a codex as playable units for 40k as far as I am aware. Other long time veterans may also recognize the name of The Red Terror, who has returned as an upgrade available to ravener broods.

What's new? Lots of things... :shok:

How about we start with the long awaited answer to the question how the fuck are we supposed to deal with flyers??? Well the answer swoops down in the form of the Hive Crone, a cousin to the harpy adapted for smashing enemy flyers from the air. Literally. The thing has spikes along its belly and totes a S8 vector strike. It also has the ability to drool on its ground enemies, again literally, via its aptly named "Drool Cannon."

The harpy itself remains unchanged from what it could do previously, with both its main weapons still being blast weapons it still can't hit air targets for squat. I doubt we;ll be seeing much of her in the skies now that her more appealing sister has put in an appearance.

The exocrine I can definitely see being popular. Why? When was the last time tyranids had a large blast weapon with AP2? Yea... Hey Imperial players, remember all those laughs you had when you were dropping demolisher templates on our swarms? Well it's about to be Fuck you time...

The haruspex I am less impressed with, for all its fancy tricks it is still a slow monster that has to plod across the battlefield to really come into its own. Like the harpy, I think it's destined to be outshone by its better in general sibling.

Warlord traits are a nice addition, and all of them are refreshingly useful in most average games. Like the ability to turn any forest you get close to into a death patch, or deconstruct enemy cover saves before the battle starts. :wink:

Instinctive behaviour took a small adjustment and... well, don't leave homagaunt or carnifex broods unattended too long, lest they eat each other... This fun little tweak makes synapse that bit more pivotal without being a complete hindrance, as there is only a small chance that something that drastic will actually occur. Still... :unsure:

The wargear section was nicely fleshed out and brought up to 6e standard, with every bioweapon being granted its own ap and special rules and whatnot. And on a minor note, spore mine movement is no longer random. You read that correct. :grin:

We also now have a selection of Hive artefacts, pieces of bio engineered wargear better than the average biomorph selections, such as a nifty set of pincers granting preferred enemy to the first type of creature they kill, or the Ymargl Factor, which allows one of your characters to mutate its body each turn similar to how the afore named genestealers could in the old book. 2+ Save Tyrant one turn, 6A Tyrant the next? Yes please... :spiteful:

Psychic powers are now restricted, no longer can we select Biomancy, Telepathy or Telekinesis. I'm okay with this, as the Hive Mind Powers are not exactly as useless as they used to be. Plus the fact that your winged Hive Tyrant could potentially be toting a Warp Blast Warp Lance combo as a result, this gives you a second (and awesome) anti air option if Luck is on your side. :chuffed:

There is a lot I still haven't covered, but I'm sure plenty of others can see what I've missed or overlooked. I'm expecting my first game tomorrow so I will be able to give some more insight then. :bye:


Anyone else care to ask or share their own thoughts here?

I agree with a lot of this but I want to throw in my 2 cents on certain units and things in particular.

The big change for me at least is the way Scything Talons work. As someone who utilised Raveners and Trygons the loss of the re-rolls they once granted will hurt their melee capabilities.

Going through the book from HQ here are my opinions on the army.

Hive Tyrant-Still awesome, still packs a whallop but a cheaper price tag and cheaper wings gives me more reason to get him. Did I also mention he is psyker level 2 base as well?

Tyrant Guard-Decent. They auto-pass Look Out Sir! (Although that was a given in my mind)but I find the weapon options expensive, especially if extra biomorphs are taken. Although knocking them down 10 points is good in my book.

Tervigon-The real main loser in this transition. Whilst the counter attack range increased to 12 inches so too did the blow up gaunts range. It also lost the ability to throw its toxin sacs and adrenal glands on gaunts. You require 30 now to take one as a troops choice AND they went up by 35 points. Although they did make them I2.

Tyranid Prime-Went up by over 40 points and the weapon options are more expensive. There is precious little to recommend one over a Hive Tyrant now.

Tyranid Warriors-Mostly stayed the same. Although with more model options now and the ability to take assault grenades they may become more popular.

Genestealers-Another unit that stays the same. Except the Broodlord is more expensive and loses the nifty hypnotic gaze power. Still would not recommend.

Termagaunts-Went down in price by a point and Spinefists are free now. They got a LD boost (Now 6!) so Synapse is not as much as a problem. Still not great either though. Will still take these.

Hormagaunts-Also went down a point and Bounding leap allows them to reach the enemy faster to tie up those annoying shooting units for a turn. Will defo include more of these in my army.

Ripper Swarms-Became more expensive in points but at least they will still be effective at tying stuff up. Not to mention they lose the mindless rule.

Hive Guard-Became 5 points more expensive but they still kick ass. The Impaler cannon got better (now ignores cover flat out) and the shockcannons are a nice alternative but the big kicker is that they are now BS3.

Zoanthropes-went down 10 points and stayed the same. Now because they are Brotherhood of psykers they get to use the assault profile of the Warp Blast/Lance attack as equal to the number of zoans in the unit. Warp Fields are still awesome.

Venomthropes-Also down 10 points whilst staying the same. Although the spore cloud is now *only* shrouded for units within 6 inches. Toxic Miasma is a lot better as well.

Lictors-Down 15 points and now can infiltrate to get more use out of the Pheromone Trail rule. Miles better because of this and if you do deep strike they now never scatter when doing so.

Haruspex-Very interesting as a beastie. I feel more than 1 is needed to get the most out of them. However regenerating wounds when it kills a guy in assault is nice as well as the new acid blood combined with the armourbane crushing claws now have make this impressive. Might not look like it has many attacks but it is ideal at tearing infantry units apart over 2 combat phases (which is the ideal for Nids).

Pyrovores-Went down 5 points but still runt of the Elites in my eyes. The volatile rule works instantly now not a 50:50 like before. Flamespurt did not get torrent.

Tyranid Shrikes-Went down 5 points whilst staying the same. Get same weapon options as normal warriors (this includes assault 'nades).

Raveners-Stayed the same points but lost an attack (technically they get it back by having 2 sets of combat weapons so no big deal). Spinefists are cheaper and the Red Terror is interesting to add as comedic value but don't rely on him. The restrictions of what he can swallow whole limit what he could eat that is of value (and no a Red Terror cannot eat another Red Terror since it can't swallow models that are very bulky).

Sky Slasher Swarms-More expensive for no change (except losing Mindless) do not take.

Gargoyles-Stay the same points but have Hunt rather than lurk and Blinding Venom is a poisoned (6+) attack now. Still dirt cheap for what you get.

Harpy-Slashed by 25 points and can use spore mine bombs more than once per game. Keeps the same options for the same price except now one has to pay for stinger salvos/cluster spines (meh). Best thing is that it got an extra wound as well.

Hive Crone-Will see lots of usage as the one realiable anti-air unit. S8 vector strike combined with S5 Haywire missiles that reroll misses against FMC's and Flyers. Drool Cannon not that great but that is not why one buys this thing.

Spore Mine Clusters-up by 5 points each but now get to control where they move. Would only take as an amusing divertion to place on objectives.

Carnifex-Still in broods and got price slashed by a 1/4 from last book. Gained 1I and have great options for them. Living Battering Ram is better now and they really look great for Shock Assaults. Also get tail weapons back (Yay!)

Biovores-Down 5 points and gained an extra wound. Spore Mine attack still the same but each one launches D3 Spore Mines for each Biovore firing (may be 3. Forgot and can't be bothered to flick through myself). More worth it now.

Trygon-dropped 10 points but lost 1 attack (but like Raveners gains it back thanks to pairs of CC weapons) apart from that it stays the same. Primes are also the same for 10 points less.

Mawloc-slashed by 30 points and the terror from the deep attack got better by being able to strike twice if the area is not cleared in the first one (I intend to use Lictors to get the most out of this)

Exocrine-New entry and for 170 points is great. Still wish the attack from the gun was S8 so it could insta kill marines but the added BS it picks up by sitting still make up for this. Plus it the hardest artillery piece in the game (T6 with W5 and 3+SV)

Tyrranofex-Slashed by 75 points (Brill!) but now has to buy the thorax swarm (although since all 3 are 10 points this is not really an issue) however the price increase of the Rupture Cannon is worrisome (up by 15 points)

Other big things to mention are that Toxin Sacs are still must haves on MC's that intend to be in combat and Adrenal Glands are better but are more expensive comparatively.

Of course these summaries are based of what I think on paper. I will start testing the units from tomorrow to gain a better analysis on how the army works. At a stab I think that troops will mainly be 10-15 man units of Gaunts/Hormagaunts for 4-6 choices since this is incredibly cheap to do so but then fleshed out with monsters and certain medium beasties (Zoanthropes especially!)

MidnightSun 01-11-14 05:18 PM

317 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1502945)
How about we start with the long awaited answer to the question how the fuck are we supposed to deal with flyers??? Well the answer swoops down in the form of the Hive Crone, a cousin to the harpy adapted for smashing enemy flyers from the air. Literally. The thing has spikes along its belly and totes a S8 vector strike. It also has the ability to drool on its ground enemies, again literally, via its aptly named "Drool Cannon."

I don't rate the Hive Crone. It's quite expensive, really fragile (T5 4+ is awful), and while Str8 Vector Strike is nice, it's not enough to deal with the really relevant aircraft (Vendetta and Heldrake - hurts Night Scythes, but I'd be amazed if you stayed alive past turn 2 against Necrons).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1502945)
The harpy itself remains unchanged from what it could do previously, with both its main weapons still being blast weapons it still can't hit air targets for squat. I doubt we;ll be seeing much of her in the skies now that her more appealing sister has put in an appearance.

Agreed - none of the problems with it were fixed, so it's still pretty bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1502945)
The exocrine I can definitely see being popular. Why? When was the last time tyranids had a large blast weapon with AP2? Yea... Hey Imperial players, remember all those laughs you had when you were dropping demolisher templates on our swarms? Well it's about to be Fuck you time...

I have an issue with it being only Str7 and only BS3. Demolisher Cannons can insta-kill people and can almost always get Divination for TL BS4 to make it hit things, while Riptides can get BS5 and Ignores Cover as well as insta-killing T4 and being a credible threat to tanks. Exocrines do technically have the rule where they stand still for +1 BS, but at only 24" range, rare is the army that will let you do that. Str7 AP2 is nice, but it's mounted on a pricy chassis (almost 50pts more than a Vindicator), as well as being fairly fragile (T6 and a 3+ is nice, but everyone and their dog is geared up to deal with 5 T8 3+ wounds or 6 T6 2+ wounds with Invulnerables, so T6 3+ 5 wounds is pretty blah as far as statlines go).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1502945)
The haruspex I am less impressed with, for all its fancy tricks it is still a slow monster that has to plod across the battlefield to really come into its own. Like the harpy, I think it's destined to be outshone by its better in general sibling.

I think it's probably better than the Exocrine as it's a melee beasty in an army of melee beasties and with Carnifexes being relevant again, you can push a lot of monster at people and force them to deal with it, although I agree that being only 6" move and a lack of Fleet really hurts it (does it have Fleet? I can't remember from my brief leaf through the book).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1502945)
Warlord traits are a nice addition, and all of them are refreshingly useful in most average games. Like the ability to turn any forest you get close to into a death patch, or deconstruct enemy cover saves before the battle starts. :wink:

Really? I think this is definitely the weakest trait table so far. Feel No Pain when you've taken a wound is pretty nice seeing as Regen is a pretty solid choice again, and +6" Synapse is never bad, but Night Vision/-1 to Cover are both bad for the same reason (Tyranids have short-range, high-AP torrent fire - Tau would love this trait, but it doesn't synergize with how Tyranids work).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1502945)
Instinctive behaviour took a small adjustment and... well, don't leave homagaunt or carnifex broods unattended too long, lest they eat each other... This fun little tweak makes synapse that bit more pivotal without being a complete hindrance, as there is only a small chance that something that drastic will actually occur. Still... :unsure:

With everyone geared up to kill Monstrous Creatures (and all Imperial armies getting transferable Monster Hunter) now, I think that Instinctive Behaviour will become a lot more important as Synapse creatures will be dropping like flies. It's also far more damaging, which sucks, but it's fairly easy to mitigate by just taking more Synapse creatures (and Warriors got better, if not a whole lot better, so that's not as much of an issue now).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1502945)
The wargear section was nicely fleshed out and brought up to 6e standard, with every bioweapon being granted its own ap and special rules and whatnot. And on a minor note, spore mine movement is no longer random. You read that correct. :grin:

Spore Mines are ok anti-tank now, but I still don't rate them. 3" movement simply isn't enough to get you to where your enemy is, which will be away from the Spores. If they do hit, they're quite nice, dealing a big hit to vehicles or a couple of wounds on an infantry unit, but a lot of units can shrug them off.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1502945)
We also now have a selection of Hive artefacts, pieces of bio engineered wargear better than the average biomorph selections, such as a nifty set of pincers granting preferred enemy to the first type of creature they kill, or the Ymargl Factor, which allows one of your characters to mutate its body each turn similar to how the afore named genestealers could in the old book. 2+ Save Tyrant one turn, 6A Tyrant the next? Yes please... :spiteful:

Some of them are ok, some of them are atrocious (Norn Crown, cool fluff does not validate you), but I think that they suffer the same problems as almost everyone else's Relics in that all but one or two of them are hugely overpriced or simply not very good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1502945)
Psychic powers are now restricted, no longer can we select Biomancy, Telepathy or Telekinesis. I'm okay with this, as the Hive Mind Powers are not exactly as useless as they used to be. Plus the fact that your winged Hive Tyrant could potentially be toting a Warp Blast Warp Lance combo as a result, this gives you a second (and awesome) anti air option if Luck is on your side. :chuffed:

Hive Mind powers are not at all bad, but losing Biomancy is sad. Still, the extra range on Paroxysm is pretty major, and the other powers are all pretty nice (I really rather like The Horror, which is now pretty good).

My own thoughts:
Gargoyles. Gargoyles are really, really good. If you get into combat with Gargoyles, you're not getting out of combat again, because you're going to take 15 Blind tests on the turn they charge and they will sit there with Fearless and you'll hit on 5s. I expect most lists to be bringing at least 40, if not the full 90.
Mawlocs are very strong. Two Strength 6 AP2 Large Blasts that focus on the same point is pretty damn powerful, even if you can't do the burrowing trick any more.
Hive Guard are still strong - the nerf to Old Adversary and going down to BS3 hurts them, but Ignores Cover is nice even if it's not that much better than before, and you can usually take out a tank through just glances with the Haywire blasts as well as being a threat to infantry (it's rare you'll completely miss a tank with the Blasts, so I'd probably bring those rather than Impalers).
Best anti-air is still a Hive Tyrant with Brainleech Worms - the Crone is 'meh', but 12 Strength 6 shots into rear armour is very, very nice.
Shadow in the Warp is nice as anti-psyker defence, even if it is short-ranged. Still, more than other armies get, which is a thing.

Serpion5 01-11-14 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kickboxerdog (Post 1502977)
ive not got the book but want a nid army, one question is there any rules that allow stealers to outflank and charge or oare mine going to stay on my shelf lol

Genestealers themselves are more or less the same. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen_Newman (Post 1503273)
Tyranid Prime-Went up by over 40 points and the weapon options are more expensive. There is precious little to recommend one over a Hive Tyrant now.

I still find it useful, potentially. I'm having a game with one today just to see if its points increase really costs me in the end considering the points drops elsewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen_Newman (Post 1503273)
Carnifex-Still in broods and got price slashed by a 1/4 from last book. Gained 1I and have great options for them. Living Battering Ram is better now and they really look great for Shock Assaults. Also get tail weapons back (Yay!)

I agree, I think we'll see a return of these fellas. I know I will, I have the models so...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightSun (Post 1503321)
I don't rate the Hive Crone. It's quite expensive, really fragile (T5 4+ is awful), and while Str8 Vector Strike is nice, it's not enough to deal with the really relevant aircraft (Vendetta and Heldrake - hurts Night Scythes, but I'd be amazed if you stayed alive past turn 2 against Necrons).

Given that it is at least a competitive air option, I definitely rate the Hive Crone. I'm testing one today, if it does half as well as I hope I'll still be taking two in my list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightSun (Post 1503321)
I have an issue with it being only Str7 and only BS3. Demolisher Cannons can insta-kill people and can almost always get Divination for TL BS4 to make it hit things, while Riptides can get BS5 and Ignores Cover as well as insta-killing T4 and being a credible threat to tanks. Exocrines do technically have the rule where they stand still for +1 BS, but at only 24" range, rare is the army that will let you do that. Str7 AP2 is nice, but it's mounted on a pricy chassis (almost 50pts more than a Vindicator), as well as being fairly fragile (T6 and a 3+ is nice, but everyone and their dog is geared up to deal with 5 T8 3+ wounds or 6 T6 2+ wounds with Invulnerables, so T6 3+ 5 wounds is pretty blah as far as statlines go).

Still, the mere fact that we have an AP2 BLAST weapon is a huge step forward and can be critical in any number of early game situations, or even late game terminator surprises. It's definitely something I wouldn't simply right off because it seems worse than other army equivalents on paper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightSun (Post 1503321)
Really? I think this is definitely the weakest trait table so far. Feel No Pain when you've taken a wound is pretty nice seeing as Regen is a pretty solid choice again, and +6" Synapse is never bad, but Night Vision/-1 to Cover are both bad for the same reason (Tyranids have short-range, high-AP torrent fire - Tau would love this trait, but it doesn't synergize with how Tyranids work).

I have never considered warlord traits all that essential, but these ones I actually can see being applicable in a lot of games. One thing I've notices is that the codex includes multiple means to obtain a few of the same buffs, either by lucky dice rolling or by paying points. Taking Old Adversary for example would nullify your adaptive biology here for instance, but if you'd rather save points and try your luck, hey well you can. :giggle:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightSun (Post 1503321)
Some of them are ok, some of them are atrocious (Norn Crown, cool fluff does not validate you), but I think that they suffer the same problems as almost everyone else's Relics in that all but one or two of them are hugely overpriced or simply not very good.

To be frank I think they're all pretty atrocious for their points cost, but they're all also good for a laugh and provide great modelling opportunities. Honestly I think that's all they're really here for. The Norn crown is for if you don't want to risk rolling the same ability on the psyker or warlord tables, the reaper is just a lashwhip bonesword combo in one with a strength bonus and the pincers are more or less just like the old scything talons for effect, except you have to kill something before they work. Like I said, a laugh and an interesting conversion. :scratchhead:

MidnightSun 01-11-14 10:28 PM

317 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1503625)
Given that it is at least a competitive air option, I definitely rate the Hive Crone. I'm testing one today, if it does half as well as I hope I'll still be taking two in my list.

Not sure it is a 'competitive air option' because even a Quad-Gun is a major threat to it and the two-guns-limit is a major dampener on it's effectiveness, but try it and see. Can't tell these things just by looking at paper copies :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1503625)
Still, the mere fact that we have an AP2 BLAST weapon is a huge step forward and can be critical in any number of early game situations, or even late game terminator surprises. It's definitely something I wouldn't simply right off because it seems worse than other army equivalents on paper.

Tyranids have had easily accessible AP3 blasts for the past two editions from Warp Blast, and Bio-Plasma isn't anything new. Anything that you'd want the Exocrine for can be done better, in my view, by the 28 Gargoyles you could take instead (which are so good now it's not even funny).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1503625)
I have never considered warlord traits all that essential, but these ones I actually can see being applicable in a lot of games. One thing I've notices is that the codex includes multiple means to obtain a few of the same buffs, either by lucky dice rolling or by paying points. Taking Old Adversary for example would nullify your adaptive biology here for instance, but if you'd rather save points and try your luck, hey well you can. :giggle:

Warlord Traits are far from essential due to their random nature, but they're important because they can be really powerful. Most of them are forgettable, one or two per book are solid (Black Crusader, Eternal Hatred, Courage of the Lion, Brilliant Planning, Lord of Unreality, Immortal Commander, Exemplar of the Selfless Cause etc.), and then some of them are just really good, usually ones that you can guarantee getting but some that are just plain powerful (Conqueror of Cities, Master of Deception, maybe Predator of the Skies). But the Tyranid ones are a bit underwhelming compared to even the BRB ones; I'd rather try and luck out for Stealth in ruins or -1 to enemy reserves than going for Tyranids, where some of them are outright bad (Night Fight, challenges and carnivorous forests, extra synapse is pretty good if you can guarantee it but as a random thing you can't factor it into your plan and you should have your synapse planned out before you even start thinking about rolling Traits).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1503625)
To be frank I think they're all pretty atrocious for their points cost, but they're all also good for a laugh and provide great modelling opportunities. Honestly I think that's all they're really here for. The Norn crown is for if you don't want to risk rolling the same ability on the psyker or warlord tables, the reaper is just a lashwhip bonesword combo in one with a strength bonus and the pincers are more or less just like the old scything talons for effect, except you have to kill something before they work. Like I said, a laugh and an interesting conversion. :scratchhead:

But why can't we have our cake and eat it too and have fun fluffy things that are also good on tabletop? Why can't we have everything Serp?! :(

Mokuren 01-12-14 01:29 AM

Today I have browsed through the Tyranid codex. It's not mine so I don't have it on hand right this moment, which means I don't exactly remember costs or effects, but I still have a feel of their general state.

I like the new codex. If we didn't have stuff like riptides, missilesides, wave serpents, 48" scoring jetbikes and screamerstars I'd be pretty satisfied with its general state, unfortunately a few problems have been laid in this edition that we'll have to keep for several years which kind of spoil the fun.

But, against anything that isn't tournament comp I think it's a lot better than it first looked. And I don't mean better than the internet backlash made it sound, I mean better than I personally thought when looking at costs and stats. Sure, lots of things got nerfed, and I do mean a lot (no rerolls from scything talons and almost everything being WS 3, still being an assault-dependant army in an edition where shooting rules and shooty armies are in control of what gets to assault and what doesn't, plus the removal of mycetic spores) but I don't see, for example, Space Marines or non-screamerstar Daemons or IG auto-winning against pretty much anything Tyranids could possibly field.

Hell I've been wanting to play my sisters against Tyranids since forever and I'm pretty sure it would be a fun game, and if sisters stand a chance against it it cannot possibly be a broken codex. It would be terrible broken if it was to struggle against them, but I don't think that's the case either.

It's still going to be vastly ignored in the meta and hardly going to place anywhere relevant in tournament play.

lockeF 01-12-14 01:31 AM

Honestly although I am a bit disappointed with a few things, overall I am pleased. My mind has been bursting with new ideas. And I am not even that bothered with the loss of biomancy (which after I play some games I may end up bothered). But it seems the days of mono-build tyranids or close to mono-build are over. Which to me is a huge bonus. While fighting Tau will be an uphill battle I feel it always has been.

Serpion5 01-12-14 06:02 AM

Okay, a few more verdicts.

The crone, as I figured did perform as I wanted for the few turns it was alive. Granted it is still somewhat fragile, so I encourage not being shy about lobbing tentaclids at the earliest opportunity. Overall, I stick with my initial impression of worthwhile. I'm even planning to add a second.

Winged Hive Tyrant, now cheaper and just as awesome as before. Spent nearly all game vector striking my opponent's infantry lines, even managing a triple run against a deffkopta squad, Killa Kanz and a deff dred. Definitely worthwhile.

Tyranid Prime, surprisingly efficient. I equiped him with the Reaper of Obliterax for lols bur the extra strength stat really let him earn his points back, laying waste to a foolhardy ork nob squad and even the warboss alongside his tyranid warrior brood. The boost he gave to the brood and the extra strength from the artifact were the real positive points to this.


Termagaunts, gargoyles, just as swarmy and bothersome as usual. The carnifex likewise turned out to be hit and miss (I ran two and got one of each result with them) but since I could run them cheaper there was no real regret on that front.

I'm going to change my list for my next game to see how some other units and tactics perform. But with one win so far my outlook is optimistic. :good:

Da Joka 01-12-14 08:57 AM

Here's my list of problems I have with the codex that people seem to be glossing over:
1) Only one unit has a 2+ save (and it's not a HQ or a Carnifex
2) Primaris Psychic power is a Joke.
3) AP2 Melee Weapons only found on MCs and Tyrant Guard
4) Grenades where you don't need them, missing even so much as an option where you do (aside from paying for them on a Tyranid Prime and having him join a unit)
5) Still no Allies, nor expanded FOC
6) Tons of really cool Wargear/Biomorph options.... that next to no one can take.


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