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-   -   Chaos tactics vs skaven and VC (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/warhammer-tactics/125276-chaos-tactics-vs-skaven-vc.html)

whittsy 06-05-13 06:27 AM

Chaos tactics vs skaven and VC
I play Warriors of Chaos and i seem to have the most difficulty winning against Skaven and Vampire Counts. Its the hordes of core units that get me. Their core is usually 3 units of 40+ where mine is usually 2 blocks of 20 chaos warriors. Either way! I can't seem to figure out how to beat them! If anyone has any tips of how to beat these guys or even how to better myself as a Chaos player. That'd be good. Most games i play are between 1k-2.5k. Cheers

Dave T Hobbit 06-05-13 04:34 PM

I most often beat VC with WoC by killing the General. If you can take out the characters who are both stopping crumbling and resurrecting troops then VC fall apart without you needing to fight the units that are difficult to handle.

Against Skaven I suggest Hellcannons: area effect panic causing shots against low leadership blocks will at worst trim them down before they reach you and at best start a chain reaction.

Against any large block I suggest using terrain to pick your fights. Hordes are difficult to manoeuvre so you can aim to get flank and rear on one without another being able to counter-charge; this takes away most of the attacks and the rank bonus so you can blend in safety.

whittsy 06-06-13 09:07 PM

Thanks dave. I'll definitely be taking my hellcannon against the skaven from now on, mainly because he has lightning cannons but that's a whole nother story. As for the simple sounding "kill his generals" how would you go about that? In a game 2k+ he usually has a kickarse lvl4 vampire bunkered in grave guard and smaller games lvl4 necro on corpsecart hiding behind lots of units.

Dave T Hobbit 06-07-13 04:12 PM

VC do not really have shooting so you have less to fear from getting small units onto the flank/rear of his battle-line.

I suggest fast characters that do not need melee to kill. Tzeentch sorcerer on disk springs to mind; if you can get Glean Magic a few turns takes away his power to resurrect. A Slaaneshi sorcerer on steed can do some fun things too; Pavane targets a specific model, and Phantasmagoria makes Ld checks harder. If you are out of charge arc your opponent can either deal with the unit magic-sniping using magic (which reduces resurrection of lost models elsewhere) or hope to weather it.

Alternatively, Wulfrik with a Marauder block can come from behind and force the General to fight a challenge; it might not work every time but it is not terrible, especially if you can get fast cavalry round the battle-line at the same time to add a flank charge.

Tim/Steve 06-07-13 04:54 PM

If the opponent general is in a bunker of grave guard you can take him out fairly easily still... but it'll likely cost you. it also depends on how many other characters the VC player has and how accessible they are: if he has nothing but the general then sacrifice any unit you get the chance to charge him with: losing a unit of 20 warriors throwing it into the GG and directing every possible attack at the vamp is a decent way to win the game. If there are other characters there to take over the army its still a bonus to kill the general but not worth a big loss unit wise.

Units such as knights, dragon ogres or blood slaughterers would probably be best at this role: you can get 2 of each into B2B with a character and that is normally enough to kill most things (especially with slaughtereres). Personally I'll use a variety of units to similar effect, one of my favourites is a nice chunky monster such as an ancient steg who bases up the unit a bit, throws a few attacks at a vamp and then thunderstomps on his head (yes you can direct stomp attacks now)... the monster isn't likely to come out the other side of the unit but all you need is it to survive to thunderstomp (or possibly into a second round).

whittsy 06-11-13 07:27 AM

Definitely be giving these tactics a go. Seeing as im mainly up against skaven and VC would I be better off sacrificing my chaos warriors for marauders? Seeing as most skaven\ VC core is S\T\I 3, marauders with flails and MoK would be stronger than the enemy core. Just a thought, plus it'll save me some points to put into knights or other strong units. A game I have coming up against VC, I have a flying DP of khorne to take out a necro on corpsecart and a lvl2 tz sorcerer, or a lvl4 tz sorcerer on disk. Which would be a better general killer in a 1500 watchtower battle?

Nicodemus 06-26-13 02:31 AM

Remember that crumbling from combat resolution can work wonders on shrinking undead hordes fast. So just play the strengths to boost your resolution. Work the flanks, be sure you have a war banner. Sometimes it is better to keep your troops alive to keep getting combat resolution then it is to have a great first round. Once you are in combat with undead units you are there until they are gone so mark of Nurgle or hand weapon and shield with mark of Tzeentch giving you 5+ ward will keep you around dealing damage every round and make it difficult for him to gain more than rank bonus. Tzeentch sorcerer with lore of metal to deal with heavy cavalry and grave guard.

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