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-   -   Skeleton warriors, what to give and how to rank up (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/warhammer-tactics/123829-skeleton-warriors-what-give-how-rank-up.html)

falcoso 05-04-13 04:17 PM

Skeleton warriors, what to give and how to rank up
 
I have finally satrted to get some tomb kings and I am wondering whether to give my warriors spears and/or shields, and also how it would be ebst to rank them up. I don't have much experience with fantasy but I would imagine wariors are a fairly weak unit given that they are 4 pts each basic. They only have one attack and it will be rare the opponent will have lower WS than 2 so you will always hit less than them. So I was thinking becasue of this, go for ranks of 5, so that I can get as many rank bonuses as possible and go for spears so that I at least get some extra attacks. A shield would certainly help but as soon as I get to S5 it will do nothing unless I also have light armour.

There is also the option of a tomb king/prince to give them good WS but that would only be worth it in a massive unit.

What do you think I should go for?

Thanks

Iron Angel 05-04-13 07:13 PM

I don't play much WFB but I've been looking at the different armies for a while and VC was one I was interested in, so here goes.

As far as I know, Skeletons are just an enormous mob of models meant to drown the enemy in bodies and attacks. Quantity over quality. Spears would probably be the best but I doubt shields will improve their survivability enough to be worth it.

Thats my impressions, but someone with more VC knowledge would be able to elaborate.

Tim/Steve 05-04-13 07:33 PM

Personally I would go with hand weapons to get the 6++ parry save, helping your hoard last a little longer (they are basically a tarpit unit) which should help more then a handful of extra S3 attacks. The parry save is doubly effective in TKs case since every model you save is 1 less that'll crumble if you lose the fight.
Secondary to this is that spears increase the cost of the model.... which is not great for a unit that you want to get as many bodies in for as little cost as possible.


As for skellies WS2; yeah, its basically the lowest WS of anyone other then undead or goblins but fear can drop many enemies down to WS1 if they fail their fear test so you will be hitting enemies on 3+ on occasion.

Deathypoo 05-04-13 08:44 PM

They come with shields, and they should probably keep the hand weapons for the parry save like Tim/Steve says. I would personally keep hand weapons over spears even if the spears were free.

The real question is always should you give them light armor?

At the most basic level, light armor will save an extra 1 wound of every six suffered.

60 skeletons with light armor cost the same as as 75 skeletons without it. You would theoretically save 10 skeletons with light armor, whereas you could just have 15 more to begin with.

So armor is bad.

But wait! Every wound you save basically saves you 2 wounds due to unstable in combat, meaning you save 20 skeletons, which is MORE than the 15.

So armor is good.

But wait! Sometimes you suffer savable wounds outside of combat. Sometimes the S makes armor irrelevant. Sometimes the extra skeletons help kill steadfast if they actually (gasp) win a combat. Sometimes the extra skeletons hurt your maneuverability, or your wallet.

So armor is really mixed - personal preference rules the day :) I do not take it, myself.

EDIT: I really oversimplified the math to arrive at the number 10 above, but I don't think the number would change enough to change my point.

EDIT#2: Once I realized I wasn't doing the math justice it bothered me and I had to sort this out, because I'm a nerd like that. I started from the other end. Let's say we're saving against 100 S3 wounds. After a 5+ save and 6++ Parry, 56 armored skeletons die. That is 280 points. After a 6+ Save and 6++ Parry, 69 unarmored skeletons die. That is 276 points. My 10 to 15 comparison was way misleading. That doesn't change how all these other factors yank the value back and forth so I would still call it a personal preference... but I may try some games with light armor now and see how it feels.

Deathypoo 05-04-13 09:02 PM

BTW, giving them a prince for WS is also personal preference, but I would never think of the skeletons as a unit that can win combat. The prince can still vastly improve their staying power as a tar pit though, so it's not a bad idea.

I would also only ever deploy 5 across.

falcoso 05-05-13 04:41 PM

Thanks for the help guys, if I take a shield as well as light armour would that not be a good idea? As I will still get a save agaisnt S5 and anything less than that is 5+ which is pretty good for 5pts when you have a parry too - just realised shields are free so I have to take those. And with 5 man ranks a spear wouldn't really do much, just an extra 5 attacks that aren't likely to do much.

Would spears be more viable in a horde of 40+ models? As I would get 3 ranks anyway because it is a horde and the spears would then get me an extra 10 attacks, but then I guess that is potentially another 10 warriors that I could take.

The_Werewolf_Arngeirr 05-05-13 06:03 PM

as said before, bodies > attacks with skele's

Tim/Steve 05-05-13 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcoso (Post 1365267)
Thanks for the help guys, if I take a shield as well as light armour would that not be a good idea? As I will still get a save agaisnt S5 and anything less than that is 5+ which is pretty good for 5pts when you have a parry too - just realised shields are free so I have to take those. And with 5 man ranks a spear wouldn't really do much, just an extra 5 attacks that aren't likely to do much.

Would spears be more viable in a horde of 40+ models? As I would get 3 ranks anyway because it is a horde and the spears would then get me an extra 10 attacks, but then I guess that is potentially another 10 warriors that I could take.

You always have the shield, but adding light armour is a pretty bad idea: its adding cost to a cheap model whose principle bonus is being cheap. A 5+ save is nice if you are fighting S3 but then anything S3 will be struggling to get through a unit anyway so it isn't really that impressive. S5 would totally ignore any armour save a skelly could get...

I think that no matter how many skellies are in the unit you probably only ever want to be using it 5 wide. That'll give you as few model in B2B with the enemy as possible and limit the damage you'll take. With that thought in mind taking HW+shield is the best plan as it makes them the bet tarpit unit you can.
Hoarding them up and giving them spears makes them a half decent attacking unit but that'll only be effective against weak enemy units. Also the spears are only really helpful in prolonged combats since you can't use them if you charge (and if the enemy charges you chances are they're confident they can beat you anyway).



Overall- I think it depends what you want the unit to do. If you want a tarpit then build them as such, if you want them to be able to put out a relatively high degree of damage take a hoard and spears (but skellies are never going to be devastating).

falcoso 05-06-13 10:29 AM

Fair enough, I was also thinking there would probably be no point in giving them a master at arms or a musician because I could put in another 5 guys for that and get another rank in, all I'm paying for is an extra attack and it will be rare that they draw combat would it not?

Dave T Hobbit 05-06-13 12:10 PM

I never include a unit champion for the extra attack.

Championsd can be useful sometimes: if you are putting a squishy character in the unit it can give protection from challenges; conversely if your character is very killy it can stop them getting stuck in a challenge that wastes most of their attacks.


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