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ckcrawford 03-30-13 08:35 AM

Black Legion Series (ADB)
 
Just thought you'd folks like to know. Seems like something really awesome. I haven't been excited for a Black Library work in a long time. But this... looks promising.


http://aarondembskibowden.wordpress....alon-of-horus/

Brother Subtle 03-30-13 08:53 AM

Can. Not. Wait!

As far as traitor legions go. The biggest one seems to get overlooked the most! Until now!

Malus Darkblade 03-30-13 08:55 AM

Hmm the Black Legion have never really interested me (Abaddon too except his cameo in the first ADB NL book) because they've been depicted as your generic bad guy legion. A Chaos version of the Ultramarines.

Maybe (most likely) ADB can change that.

Lord of the Night 03-30-13 10:12 AM

151 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade (Post 1353985)
Hmm the Black Legion have never really interested me (Abaddon too except his cameo in the first ADB NL book) because they've been depicted as your generic bad guy legion. A Chaos version of the Ultramarines.

ADB does actually address that in the comments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADB
It’s hard to reply without saying too much, but where the Ultramarines are “generic” Space Marines (as much as I love them, that’s not an insult – they are 95% of the template for the concept itself, which in turn is one of the things I love most about their implementation), the Black Legion aren’t the generic template for the Chaos Marines. They’re not the “default” Chaos Marines in the same way. Instead, they’re everything about Chaos. The best and worst of it; the best and worst of every single Legion. You can point to an Ultramarine and say “That’s a Space Marine”. You can’t do that with a Black Legionnaire, and say “That’s a Chaos Marine”. Uh, is he a former Son of Horus? A Word Bearer exploring his faith in a new way? A Renegade newly sworn to the Black? A Thousand Son sorcerer? A guy who forgot his original Legion completely? A Khorne Berzerker? There’s no “generic” Black Legionnaire. Former Sons of Horus are as defined and unique as any other Marine in the Legion.

The Black Legion: united in hate.

I share the sentiments here. More CSM is always a great thing, by ADB it's an even greater thing. But a CSM series by ADB that has the potential to become a long-running series, ala Gaunt's Ghosts?? Now that is the best news i've heard since The Creative Assembly's Warhammer RTS game.


LotN

Brother Subtle 03-31-13 04:05 AM

I expect ADB to give The Black Legion it's own identity. Something that makes them uniquely evil. Well... Lets hope!!!

bigtax 03-31-13 04:34 AM

The.Best.Warhammer40k.Series.Will.Come.

hailene 03-31-13 05:36 AM

I'd like to see the Astartes strength of the BL explained in detailed. If you take the Word Bearer trilogy at face value, the BL could have a couple million Astartes itself.

Lord Hell 03-31-13 07:05 AM

I am most interested in what Abaddon's personalty in the Black Legion Series will be. And if any of the Daemon Primarchs or other well know chaos champions like Erebus,Lucius,Khârn,Ahriman,Lufgt Huron,Kor Phaeron and others will appear.

sadLor 03-31-13 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Hell (Post 1354226)
I am most interested in what Abaddon's personalty in the Black Legion Series will be. And if any of the Daemon Primarchs or other well know chaos champions like Erebus,Lucius,Khârn,Ahriman,Lufgt Huron,Kor Phaeron and others will appear.

Well, the lore says the Emperor's Children steal Horus' body and try to clone him. I assume that means we'll most likely see Lucius for sure. And cloning Horus? That seems to have Fabius all over it.

But really, there isn't much set lore during the period right after the HH. All we know is the BL courted each of the Chaos gods in turn and the other chaos legions attacked them. ADB is free to write anything he wants. Be interesting to see if any of the traitor primarchs/daemon primarchs show up. And dare ADB clear up what happened to Russ/Corax who were both said to have disappeared into the Eye? Highly doubtful...but fun to think about.

forkmaster 03-31-13 10:08 AM

It appears the main character of the series will be a former Thousand Sons-Astartes, turning Black Legion! :)

Lord of the Night 03-31-13 11:21 AM

151 Attachment(s)
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Originally Posted by forkmaster (Post 1354255)
It appears the main character of the series will be a former Thousand Sons-Astartes, turning Black Legion! :)

Yep, here's what we know about him so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADB
The main character, at Abaddon's right hand and who will become one of the Black Legion's founders, is Iskandar Khayon - a Thousand Son, though he has many, many, many titles by 999.M41, and hardly anyone knows his real name by then. He was in the Thousand Sons' inner circle of command, and unsuccessfully tried to stop the Rubric.

He definitely sounds interesting.


LotN

sadLor 03-31-13 06:41 PM

Brand new character? I can't remember him from Prospero Burns or a Thousand Sons...But it's been awhile since I've read those.

Myen'Tal 03-31-13 08:18 PM

Oh, this definitely seems interesting, I'm sure it will be great:ok:!

Lord of the Night 03-31-13 09:08 PM

151 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by sadLor (Post 1354349)
Brand new character? I can't remember him from Prospero Burns or a Thousand Sons...But it's been awhile since I've read those.

He's not in the Heresy series, and according to ADB he probably won't be.


LotN

Child-of-the-Emperor 03-31-13 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of the Night (Post 1354381)
He's not in the Heresy series, and according to ADB he probably won't be.


LotN

Good. I don't half hate it when authors (McNeill) constantly regurgitate characters.

gothik 03-31-13 11:11 PM

i for one cant wait for this, its about time the Black Legion got its shot, maybe some old faces will appeear like Widowmaker cause he was one of my favs from the lunar Wolves/SOH

Lord of the Night 03-31-13 11:19 PM

151 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by gothik (Post 1354411)
i for one cant wait for this, its about time the Black Legion got its shot, maybe some old faces will appeear like Widowmaker cause he was one of my favs from the lunar Wolves/SOH

Well ADB did confirm that Falkus Kibre survived the Heresy in Soul Hunter, he was still leading Abaddon's Terminator elite. If I had to guess i'd say he'll likely be in the Black Legion series.


LotN

Brother Subtle 04-01-13 04:29 AM

I hope each edition gets a first run hardcover like Pariah, Priests of Mars etc. I really like the non-dust jacket hardcovers BL produce. Even better if i can get them from BookDepos.

I'm pretty sure the Gaunts Ghosts series started out this way.

forkmaster 04-01-13 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord of the Night (Post 1354263)
Yep, here's what we know about him so far.



He definitely sounds interesting.


LotN

If he didn't support the Rubric and hated the results it gives a pretty good reason to abbadon his own Legion! :) Man I am SO excited!

Kaspar Mayer 04-01-13 03:45 PM

I am pretty excited for this series. Even more so if it becomes a long running series. It looks like ADB can take things pretty much anywhere he wants to (and over a 10,000 year period, that can be pretty far). Now the wait for The Talon of Horus. This may be the first series I buy everything in hardcover.

piemelke 04-01-13 05:57 PM

I hope it will be first in a set of series, I assume GW is already preparing for a life after the HH,

sadLor 04-01-13 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forkmaster (Post 1354505)
If he didn't support the Rubric and hated the results it gives a pretty good reason to abbadon his own Legion!

You deserve some credit for that pun:so_happy:


Quote:

I hope it will be first in a set of series, I assume GW is already preparing for a life after the HH,
Post HH...I wonder when that will be. In any case, they have stories to tell for decades when/if HH ever ends. Whole series can be written about the Great Crusade, Primarch's upbringing on their homeworlds, Reign of Blood, etc.

piemelke 04-01-13 07:19 PM

I mean the concept of long (6 books or more ) series with the same quality as the HH

Lord of the Night 04-01-13 07:41 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by piemelke (Post 1354636)
I mean the concept of long (6 books or more ) series with the same quality as the HH

Apparantely words like "ADB's Gaunt's Ghosts" are being tossed around at BL. So this series could very well be Black Library's new long-running series. And it's not a Guard series or an Imperial Marine series but a Chaos Marine series. Truly great news indeed. :grin:


LotN

gridge 04-06-13 04:02 AM

This is pretty exciting. I do wish ADB would do some more loyalist marine work but I absolutely love his chaos marines.

MontytheMighty 04-09-13 03:07 AM

Kinda odd that this TSons Inner Circle member is not mentioned at all in A Thousand Sons

I'm guessing he's not a Fellowship Captain, maybe a Captain's second-in-command?

Child-of-the-Emperor 04-09-13 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontytheMighty (Post 1357065)
Kinda odd that this TSons Inner Circle member is not mentioned at all in A Thousand Sons

I'm guessing he's not a Fellowship Captain, maybe a Captain's second-in-command?

Not every important Thousand Son was involved in the prose of A Thousand Sons. No doubt Aaron will justify Iskandar Khayon's XV Legion heritage without any problem. He is very good at dealing with established lore and meshing it seamlessly into his own works.

Besides, Aaron shouldn't restrict himself by using XV Legion characters that were only mentioned/featured in Mcneill's A Thousand Sons. That would be silly. :wink:

Dead.Blue.Clown 04-09-13 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MontytheMighty (Post 1357065)
Kinda odd that this TSons Inner Circle member is not mentioned at all in A Thousand Sons

I'm guessing he's not a Fellowship Captain, maybe a Captain's second-in-command?

This is what worries me. People think 40K is so small, mostly because of the scale it's presented in (in the books and codices, as much as any fan assumption). Here's my answer to this exact topic, on another forum:

"It's not really a matter of limitation. From the outset, the best opportunity about a Black Legion series is a matter of scale. I don't really care, to be perfectly honest, what happens to the handful of major captains we see in the Sons of Horus, in the HH series. With the ebb and flow of Legion ranks, there are between 100 and 200 captains, commanders, battalion leaders, and several hundred more lieutenants and sergeants, etc. And that's just the Sons of Horus (who, as a related note, are practically annihilated in the Legion Wars inside the Eye of Terror, by the time the Black Legion is founded). Captains, sorcerers, officers and everything else from the other Legions are also part of the Black Legion's founding, because while the Sons of Horus were just the Luna Wolves with a new coat of paint, the Black Legion is categorically not the Sons of Horus with a new colour scheme. The Black Legion is something utterly new to the galaxy, and the Traitor Legions.

As for other Heresy characters, their fates are already famously established, or they may or may not be irrelevant. The Heresy series (sadly) can only show so much. It shows a fraction of the power players within each Legion. Anyone coming into this with linear thinking will find their expectations dashed, I think. Let's say Horus Aximand survives, for example. If I mention him, he might not join the Black Legion at all. If I don't mention him, it doesn't mean he doesn't make it. It means he has nothing to do with the story, or the founding of the Black Legion, or other characters have eclipsed him in importance. And on the flip side, how many captains of the Thousand Sons have we really seen? Or the Emperor's Children? Or even the Sons of Horus? There are hundreds and hundreds - some are minor, some are major, but they're just not quite on the level of the Kharns and Ahrimans. And, of course, Abaddon.

So, naw, it's not about there being any limits set on this. In fact, the opposite is true, as f'rex Dan has already asked which Sons of Horus characters I planned to use, so we didn't kill them off in the Heresy, etc. It's more a matter of scale, that the characters we've seen in the Heresy are 0.01% of the bigger picture. The First Lords of the Black Legion aren't necessarily the last commanders of the Sons of Horus. It'll never be that linear - I'd be doing a huge injustice to the scale of the setting if it played out like that.

Think of it like Troy. All those heroes died in the Trojan War, except for a small handful that went on to their own adventures. Odysseus had his Odyssey. Aeneas went to found the city of Alba Longa with the Latins. A few hundred years later, the last lords of Troy were mostly gone, and the first lords of Rome took their place.

I'm sure there'll be a spoiler or two on the most minor scale, but we already know what happens to every primarch and first captain anyway, so it's hardly life-shattering. As for other characters, it's more a matter of it not being about the same guys that masterminded the Heresy. We already know most of their fates. This is about the Traitor Legions being forced to live in Hell, in the wake of their primarchs abandoning them and evolving to a higher plane of life; and a new breed of Chaos Marine rising from the rubble.

The main character, at Abaddon's right hand and who will become one of the Black Legion's founders, is Iskandar Khayon - a Thousand Son. He was in the Thousand Sons' inner circle of command, and unsuccessfully tried to stop the Rubric. He's not mentioned in the Horus Heresy series (though I could easily have him slipped in already; could've done it myself twice over), but the focused nature of the HH series means about a bajillion major and minor characters are slipping through the cracks. There's room for a lot of flex space, if you get me.

If you have too much crossover, the galaxy becomes too small. It's one of my hugest bugbears. Like how Boba Fett is "the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy". The galaxy is a big, big, big place. I hate that "small neighbourhood" feel of everyone knowing everyone else."

Child-of-the-Emperor 04-09-13 05:32 PM

:goodpost:

Completely agree with Aaron. That's the main reason why I found Mcneill's massive character/setting overlaps between his 40k series' and one or two of his Heresy novels to be cringe worthy.

Captain_Daerys_Arrun 04-12-13 01:31 PM

Looking foreward to this one and ADB is one who wlmost always delivers.

mal310 04-12-13 02:53 PM

I am looking forward this series and have no doubts that it will be excellent. However I am slightly concerned that because it will be such a large series it will take up much of Aaron’s writing time to the detriment of other topics that could do with some of the Bowden magic. Personally I find that every aspect of the Warhammer setting he writes about benefits enormously from his work. The Night Lords, World Eaters and Word Bearers for example have all had their legacy/background etc improved extensively because of his writing.

I’d love to see him writing about all the legions, the Necrons, Tau, Dark Elder, Orks and everything else in the setting and even some Warhammer Fantasy. I know we can’t have it all as he’s only one man but hopefully he’ll still be able to cover a lot of things.

Now of course it’s his personal choice what he writes about and I’ll read it regardless because it’s always great, however I still hope that the journey he takes us on can be as varied as possible.

Lord of the Night 04-19-13 07:43 AM

151 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by ADB Twitter
Evacuating Prospero; winged Dark Eldar women; talking to Rubricae; and strangling one of the Emperor's Children. On to Chapter II.

So much to love already. :grin:


LotN

Angel of Blood 04-19-13 10:04 AM

He tricked us with the cover art though!!! Damn you ADB!!!! Funny all the same.

bobss 04-21-13 11:55 PM

I feel as if ADB 'gets' the essence of 40k lore in all its grimdark appeal, whereas so many other authors can't -- or at least not A) to the same extent or B) on a regular and replicable basis. What I've read never fails to provide new and interesting angles to view the setting with, be it the large or small picture, that also mesh with previously established material. Even to this day little things such as, say, the Night Lords' conceit and elitism towards renegades in the Maelstrom stick with me (if I dreamt that moment, my rather enjoyable Spring of 2011 will come crashing down). Why? I don't quite know. This interaction between one of the founding Legions and a much more recent turncoat group feels so natural, but it was something I had never thought about before. And once again:

''This is about the Traitor Legions being forced to live in Hell, in the wake of their primarchs abandoning them and evolving to a higher plane of life; and a new breed of Chaos Marine rising from the rubble.''

To me the Black Legion were the Sons of Horus with a new lick of paint, who gradually assimilated other Astartes. Not, ''a new breed of Chaos Marine'' who, from the base up, have cast aside their previous divisions to form a new fighting machine, hardened by their experiences in the Eye of Terror. I'm not a simpleton, but it's quotes like the above which exercise my brain in different and enjoyable ways, and I feel that's the greatest thing an author working for an already existing and borrowed setting can achieve.

It's things like that which make me want to reread his novels with the same passion I rewatch 80s anime -- another pastime close to my heart. So, yeah, good luck, and I may even brave one of those loathsome hardbacks at the first opportunity.

Dead.Blue.Clown 04-22-13 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobss (Post 1360998)
I feel as if ADB 'gets' the essence of 40k lore in all its grimdark appeal, whereas so many other authors can't -- or at least not A) to the same extent or B) on a regular and replicable basis. What I've read never fails to provide new and interesting angles to view the setting with, be it the large or small picture, that also mesh with previously established material. Even to this day little things such as, say, the Night Lords' conceit and elitism towards renegades in the Maelstrom stick with me (if I dreamt that moment, my rather enjoyable Spring of 2011 will come crashing down). Why? I don't quite know. This interaction between one of the founding Legions and a much more recent turncoat group feels so natural, but it was something I had never thought about before. And once again:

''This is about the Traitor Legions being forced to live in Hell, in the wake of their primarchs abandoning them and evolving to a higher plane of life; and a new breed of Chaos Marine rising from the rubble.''

To me the Black Legion were the Sons of Horus with a new lick of paint, who gradually assimilated other Astartes. Not, ''a new breed of Chaos Marine'' who, from the base up, have cast aside their previous divisions to form a new fighting machine, hardened by their experiences in the Eye of Terror. I'm not a simpleton, but it's quotes like the above which exercise my brain in different and enjoyable ways, and I feel that's the greatest thing an author working for an already existing and borrowed setting can achieve.

It's things like that which make me want to reread his novels with the same passion I rewatch 80s anime -- another pastime close to my heart. So, yeah, good luck, and I may even brave one of those loathsome hardbacks at the first opportunity.

I silently bookmarked this post for my personal, secret feedback file, then decided to post to explain my immense gratitude. I don't have the words to adequately explain how much I appreciate this point of view, because it's exactly what I'm hoping to achieve by writing in the setting. Hell, it's practically our only mandate, even if it's a silent assumption rather than an ironclad law.

So often, you see reviews (thankfully, not too often for my work, or I'd be in tears) that say "This is different to what I expected about Faction X, so it's wrong, and it sucks." But that's just... it's so blithely, snidely against what 40K is about. So much nuance and depth of the setting doesn't necessarily come across in the rulebooks. So much of it is down to personal interpretation and deeper perspective, or stuff that's not always made clear in the short Codex overviews. When people take those little overviews as Everything There Is, rather than the broadest strokes of the brush meant to inspire your own imagination, that way lies madness and misunderstanding.

tl;dr - Thanks. That's one of the coolest, insightful-feeling things anyone's ever said about my work, and I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to say it.

On a related note:

"My Legion bears no number – it was not founded by the Emperor and it never fought at his side. We were born in the centuries after those days of defeat. Numbers were only bestowed upon the Legions of the Great Crusade. We are the Legion of the Long War."

Garrak 04-22-13 10:22 AM

You just love to tease us, don't you? That quote alone makes it clear that the BL are not simply Sons with a different color scheme. Btw, now you've got me wondering why did they pick that color and name and just how much symbolism is in there (well the Legion one is made obvious in that quote)?

Generally I'm not a fan of CSM books (I got the word bearer trilogy from a friend and Storm of Iron which was my first 40k anything ever) but I loved the Night Lords trilogy. You know what made me pick up that trilogy? When I saw who wrote it. Since then I've bought every book by ADB because I know it's going to be awesome. Last week I finished Betrayer and it was great (Kharn and Argel Tal were a delight to read). So I can't wait for this series because I know ADB will do some awesome stuff with this and turn our expectations on their heads.

That said, I'm still hoping you'll write another IG book somewhere down the line.

Child-of-the-Emperor 04-22-13 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garrak (Post 1361073)
Btw, now you've got me wondering why did they pick that color and name and just how much symbolism is in there (well the Legion one is made obvious in that quote)?

Assuming AD-B goes down the same route as the brief sentence in the codex which answers this question: "Abaddon's first edicts rejected the name of Horus and their ancient Legion title. He ordered his remaining Chaos Space Marines to repaint their armour black in eternal memory of their shame..."

There is such a rich body of material to draw from for this series, that at the very least, the plot will be exciting. The retreat into the Eye; the worship of each Chaos God in turn and the possession of many Sons of Horus; the decimation of the Sons of Horus and their defeat in the inter-legionary wars; the cloning of Horus; the rise of Abaddon and his utter rejection of his father and god; Abaddon's daemonic pacts and acquisition of the gods favour and relics. Etc. The new codex has also put a lot more emphasis on the 13th Black Crusade being Abaddon's ultimate endgame, and the previous 12 being prerequisites. I wonder if that is the path Aaron will take.

All of this has got me in the mood to go re-read Aaron's prologue short story for this series now.

Malus Darkblade 04-22-13 06:24 PM

@COTE: did he post the prologue on his blog? If so I could not find it. A link would be appreciated unless it's in an anthology from a BL event or something.

Child-of-the-Emperor 04-22-13 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malus Darkblade (Post 1361192)
@COTE: did he post the prologue on his blog? If so I could not find it. A link would be appreciated unless it's in an anthology from a BL event or something.

Black Library Games Day Anthology 12/13. So no link, sorry.

Lord of the Night 04-22-13 08:30 PM

151 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead.Blue.Clown (Post 1361067)
"My Legion bears no number – it was not founded by the Emperor and it never fought at his side. We were born in the centuries after those days of defeat. Numbers were only bestowed upon the Legions of the Great Crusade. We are the Legion of the Long War."

Oh man... that is an epic title. :shok:


LotN


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