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-   -   IG as allies for CSM (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/40k-tactics/121590-ig-allies-csm.html)

LQNKY 02-20-13 05:36 AM

IG as allies for CSM
 
I currently have a CSM list that I feel needs some tarpits and heavy weapons, so I thought IG would be the best (Lost and the Damned and what not).

A few quick questions about troop choices. (Going of 5th. ed codex of course.)

1) Do I need to have a conscript squad to invoke Chenkov's Send in the Next Wave?

2) Do I need to include a Vox-Caster with each squad or is one in the command squad enough?

3) is Pask worth the 50 points with a Leman Russ Demolisher and a Leman Russ Battle Tank (possibly two).

Mossy Toes 02-20-13 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LQNKY (Post 1341476)
I currently have a CSM list that I feel needs some tarpits and heavy weapons, so I thought IG would be the best (Lost and the Damned and what not).

A few quick questions about troop choices. (Going of 5th. ed codex of course.)

1) Do I need to have a conscript squad to invoke Chenkov's Send in the Next Wave?

2) Do I need to include a Vox-Caster with each squad or is one in the command squad enough?

3) is Pask worth the 50 points with a Leman Russ Demolisher and a Leman Russ Battle Tank (possibly two).

1. Yes.

2. Yes, you need to include one in each squad if you want to take advantage of the order reroll. I think it isn't worth the points, personally.

3. The general consensus is... not really.

Good luck with your IG allies, though! I'm right there with you.

maelstrom48 02-20-13 07:53 AM

1) Yes, but conscripts aren't really worth the points. For just a couple more points per model you'll get access to special/heavy weapons, plus BS3 instead of BS2. Oh yea, and Chimeras. You're better off just filling out an infantry platoon.

2) Yes. I agree with Mossy Toes on this. You're better off spending the spare points on more dakka. Although I'll sometimes take them on my combined infantry platoons if I have points to spare. 30 infantrymen with 3 hidden, twin-linked lascannons and 3 plasmas? Sure, why not?

3) Probably not. 1" on ordnance doesn't make that great a difference. He can arguably help Vanquishers and Exterminators pay for their points value better, but personally I just skip him and spend his points on Guardsman Fucking Marbo.

LQNKY 02-20-13 11:23 PM

Thanks guys!

this is my hazard at an actual list.

HQ
Command Squad w/ 2x flamers and a lascannon
Ministorum Priest
-----------
Troops
Plantoon Command Squad
2x Infantry Squad w/ melta and missile launcher
Infantry Squad w/ melta and lascannon
Special weapon squad w/ 3x flamers
------------
Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ hunter-killer missile
Leman Russ Battle Tank w/ lascannon


Total it would cost 740 points, so I would probably drop the infantry squad with the lascannon and the special weapons squad (and possibly the LR w/ h-k missile) to bring it down to 600 (440) points if I was playing a smaller game.

Any more suggestions, criticisms, or warnings?

maelstrom48 02-21-13 08:26 AM

Not bad! I play gunline guard (with a sprinkle of mech) so a couple of minor suggestions...

I like the inclusion of a lascannon in the Co Command Squad. Good use of the higher BS. Flamers... not quite as much. I'd recommend skipping the special weapons altogether, but if you must have one, I personally like grenade launchers.

Ministorum priest - who'll you be attaching him to? Whoever he goes with, I'd recommend dropping any heavy weapons in that squad.

Platoon Command Squad gives you access to some miscellaneous and sometimes useful extras, such as sniper rifles. I like to run my PCS's with 4 sniper rifles or 4 grenade launchers. Just a bit of extra firepower for a small points cost, and from time to time it actually makes that PCS useful.

Infantry squads, I like to give them either flamer / grenade launcher and an autocannon. Grenade launcher is a great go-to weapon, better than people usually rate it (though not spectacular). Flamer is awesome for objective grabbing / holding (don't underestimate overwatch). Melta's short range tends to work against it. You might find that you'll rarely get the opportunity to use it in a useful capacity. Autocannon is a happy option, very well-liked among guard players. It'll murder light infantry and chop up transports without too much difficulty, and very cheap as well. Lascannon, not many guard players like, but I personally fine it useful in a gunline.

Leman Russes - thanks to the new ordnance rules, when you fire your battlecannon, you can only fire other weapons as snap-shots. Therefore I recommend removing the HK missile and lascannon. Just go with a barebones LRBT, no sponsons up upgrades at all.

Special weapons squad, I have no issue with. Possibly buy a Chimera for an infantry squad, then mount the special weapon squad in it instead? That'd make them half decent for objective grabbing.

LQNKY 02-21-13 04:53 PM

HQ
Command Squad w/ lascannon
Ministorum Priest
-----------
Troops
Plantoon Command Squad w/ 4x sniper rifles
2x Infantry Squad w/ flamer and autocannon
Infantry Squad w/ flamer and krak grenades (priest)
Special weapon squad w/ 3x flamers
------------
Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Battle Tank


Ok so this would run me 710 points (would drop the priest, infantry squad and special weapons for 550 points). I would be using the infantry for tarpiting and objective holding while the lemans would be laying down the heavy dakka I need.

Any more comments? You guys have been super helpful and I'm thankful for that.

MidnightSun 02-21-13 10:20 PM

317 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by LQNKY (Post 1341909)
HQ
Command Squad w/ lascannon
Ministorum Priest

Priest is unessecary. Remove him completely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LQNKY (Post 1341909)
Troops
Plantoon Command Squad w/ 4x sniper rifles
2x Infantry Squad w/ flamer and autocannon
Infantry Squad w/ flamer and krak grenades (priest)
Special weapon squad w/ 3x flamers

Platoon Command Squad should have 4x Flamers, Infantry Squads are pretty good but I much prefer to have either Specials or Heavies. Are you a sit-back-and-shoot unit or close-range unit? Pick one and save points. Krak Grenades are useless on Guardsmen. Special Weapons Squad should be removed and the Flamers used in the Platoon Command.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LQNKY (Post 1341909)
Heavy Support
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Battle Tank

I think they need Heavy Bolter Sponsons, but I guess they're still ok. Can't run two seperately as you're only using one FOC. They have to squadron, which kinda sucks. I think the Executioner is superior, especially for Chaos who lack their own rocks to smash other rocks with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LQNKY (Post 1341909)
Any more comments? You guys have been super helpful and I'm thankful for that.

Needs more Vendetta. Apart from that, save points on things like Krak Grenades and the Priest because you want to make your Allies as cheap as possible.

Midnight

shaantitus 02-22-13 01:59 AM

Just a note on voxcasters. When you go to larger games and you blob up your infantry squads you only need one vox in the blob. so if you had three infantry squads with autocannons and blobed them together then all three squads would get the reroll as long as there was a single vox in the blob(and one on the command squad of course.)

LQNKY 02-22-13 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightSun (Post 1342021)
Platoon Command Squad should have 4x Flamers, Infantry Squads are pretty good but I much prefer to have either Specials or Heavies. Are you a sit-back-and-shoot unit or close-range unit? Pick one and save points. Krak Grenades are useless on Guardsmen. Special Weapons Squad should be removed and the Flamers used in the Platoon Command.

I was thinking of using the Command Squad to sit back and take pot shots or hold objectives, the two Infantry Squads w/ autocannons to tarpit and objective clear, the Infantry Squad w/ priest as dedicated transport hunters (hence krak and priest to help on assaults), and the Special Weapons Squad as mob killers (lots of orks and 'nids in my neck of the woods).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightSun (Post 1342021)
I think they need Heavy Bolter Sponsons, but I guess they're still ok. Can't run two seperately as you're only using one FOC. They have to squadron, which kinda sucks. I think the Executioner is superior, especially for Chaos who lack their own rocks to smash other rocks with.

I have already have two biker squads that are great for tank busting (power fist and lightning claw on champion means no attacks lost) so I was just looking to plant the tanks and get dakka down range.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidnightSun (Post 1342021)
Needs more Vendetta. Apart from that, save points on things like Krak Grenades and the Priest because you want to make your Allies as cheap as possible.

If I was going to bring a flyer I would bring a helldrake, and I'm not to worried about points because I like the idea of a chaos war band with lots of disposable cultists and the elite chaos marines.

Again thanks for the advice and sorry if I come of sounding like a dick but I had a general idea for the list and should have made it clear earlier.

Any more advice is welcome.

maelstrom48 02-22-13 09:09 AM

Vendetta is one of the best flyers in the game, if not THE best, so don't dismiss it right away! MidnightSun is probably right about the krak grenades, though I respectfully disagree on the sniper rifles. They're especially good against Tyranids.

Also, gotta bring back the point about the sponsons on the Leman Russ. To me personally, it's not worth paying the extra points for something that'll only hit on 6's. I'd take those points and use them for a power weapon or something for a Chaos Marine. And in my opinion, Leman Russes look much better without sponsons.


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