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-   -   Allies (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/general-40k/113027-allies.html)

PlagueMarineXenon 07-01-12 03:51 AM

Allies
 
So reading through the 6th ed I thought the concept of allies was quite a new and exciting idea. When chaos daemons first came out I had something similar in mind while playing CSM but there wasn't anything "official", just homebrew rules. If you look at the chart on page 113 (at least that's what it is in my edition), I found two odd relationships. First, Eldar and Dark Eldar are considered battle brothers. Second, Space marine and tau are considered battle brothers. In regards to the eldar, from what I read, the eldar are not fond of their fallen brethren whatsoever. And for the space marines and tau, what happened to "Let not the alien live?". Maybe I'm missing something here but these seem like a couple odd pairings. Thoughts?

misfratz 07-01-12 05:54 AM

With the exception of Tyranids I think the chart is generally a lot more permissive than I would have drawn it. I may create my own version.

Serpion5 07-01-12 06:14 AM

The Eldar/Dark Eldar relationship has changed over the last few editions.

It used to be an extreme hatred towards one another, now however it seems that they merely have philosophical and lifestyle differences.


I feel that dropping it down a level would have made more sense, as the two factions have allied in the past. Both sides hate Chaos equally with a passion, and both sides recognize the potential threat of races like the tyranids and necrons. However classing them as Battle Brothers is I feel taking it a tad too far.


I don't agree with tyranids being left out. Between genestealer cults and Mind Control, there are enough justifications for them to use IG and Orks as unwilling pawns and fodder.

PlagueMarineXenon 07-01-12 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1249882)
The Eldar/Dark Eldar relationship has changed over the last few editions.

It used to be an extreme hatred towards one another, now however it seems that they merely have philosophical and lifestyle differences.


I feel that dropping it down a level would have made more sense, as the two factions have allied in the past. Both sides hate Chaos equally with a passion, and both sides recognize the potential threat of races like the tyranids and necrons. However classing them as Battle Brothers is I feel taking it a tad too far.


I don't agree with tyranids being left out. Between genestealer cults and Mind Control, there are enough justifications for them to use IG and Orks as unwilling pawns and fodder.

I agree that they're not utterly bitter rivals but making those two relationships as battle brothers seems off. As you say they should probably be one notch lower.

As for the tyranids, I think it's more of a factor that no other race would even begrudgingly ally themselves with the tyranids seeing as they're the Great Devourer. All tyranids do is consume (in one fashion or another) and I think they were going for something along the lines of having something that every other race could hate? Makes me wonder if that philosophy might change the nature of the other alliances. After all, the enemy of my enemy is my friend...right?

Sakura_ninja 07-01-12 07:17 AM

Although genestealer cults exist, do you REALLY trust gamers to only make a stealer cult?, Hell no, you would see hive tyrants alongside battle tanks, and trygons supporting grey knights, the allied system is going to be broken already because nobody gives a shit about the 40k background

Serpion5 07-01-12 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakura_ninja (Post 1249921)
Although genestealer cults exist, do you REALLY trust gamers to only make a stealer cult?, Hell no, you would see hive tyrants alongside battle tanks, and trygons supporting grey knights, the allied system is going to be broken already because nobody gives a shit about the 40k background

Sadly this is one of those things that can only be regulated by local gaming groups themselves.

HOBO 07-01-12 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serpion5 (Post 1249954)
Sadly this is one of those things that can only be regulated by local gaming groups themselves.

I agree, and thankfully I just happen to play with a group of guys who won't be going OP on Allies in standard 40K games...hmmm, I just realised that's the wrong terminology to use under 6th Ed, I should have said non-Apoc games. We will continue to use Allies in Apoc games in a similar fashion to how we've always used them - ala the Allies Matrix at the back of the Apoc Rulebook.

The lines have now been blurred somewhat haven't they:whistle:

PlagueMarineXenon 07-01-12 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOBO (Post 1249971)
I agree, and thankfully I just happen to play with a group of guys who won't be going OP on Allies in standard 40K games...hmmm, I just realised that's the wrong terminology to use under 6th Ed, I should have said non-Apoc games. We will continue to use Allies in Apoc games in a similar fashion to how we've always used them - ala the Allies Matrix at the back of the Apoc Rulebook.

The lines have now been blurred somewhat haven't they:whistle:

This may be a good point. Unfortunately, I don't have access to an Apoc book to see.

PlagueMarineXenon 07-01-12 11:19 PM

I have to say that this is another brilliant move from GW's standpoint. It's meant to encourage buying more models, codexes, etc by allowing players to field multiple types of armies at once.

bitsandkits 07-02-12 06:14 AM

the eldar and DE battle brothers allies is perfect for those two armies, they can still hate each other with a passion but work together for the mutual benefit of there race, it makes perfect sense, the problem people have is that is overwrites "established" very bland and very poorly written very dated fluff, its FLUFF it means nothing, its just words to fill the expensive glossy book so we dont feel as robbed when we hand over the monies, honestly the words on the page hold no more impact on your gaming experience than the pretty pictures of the shiny models and the black and white battle pictures scratched out by JB.
The DE codex gave a very interesting and insight full look into DE society and by extension the Craftworlds and as an eldar player im really happy that these two factions are able on occasion to put there differences aside to fight together for there own alien and selfish reasons, Its totally eldar to go and work with there evil(or tree hugging) kin so they can shit down the neck of a local imperial lord because his rose garden is on an ancient eldar burial ground.

Personally i think that the only fluff that counts is the fluff, you as a player/collector creates, everything that GW do is page filler or to give you the essence of what the army is about, but that should be a starting point and not the final word, the abillity to have allies is a total money spinner for GW but thats no surprise, but its also gives you the player the freedom to really explore the hobby in the way you want to, and god forbid maybe have some fun and enjoy it.



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