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-   -   New World-Class Gaming Arena: Birmingham (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/wargaming-news-40k-rumors/109756-new-world-class-gaming-arena-birmingham.html)

RetiredFlagellant 04-26-12 09:31 AM

New World-Class Gaming Arena: Birmingham
We are in the planning stages to create a fantastic gaming arena in Birmingham and are running a market survey to lead the direction of our business plan. It would be truly enlightening to hear your views regarding customer service and the frustrations you have as a paying customer; we all know this hobby isn't cheap so we believe that the customer service should reflect that expense. Thank you for your time and support.

You can access the survey here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VGFZbEM4WEE6MQ

TheReverend 04-26-12 12:23 PM

Hey, this would be great. I live in Brum and could really do with another games club.

on a side note, have you thought about advertising this at the UK Games expo in Brum next month? You could really get some interest at the expo (i have started a thread in the tournaments section on here if you want more info)

If you wanted an help with gaming arena give me a shout.


VanquisherMBT 04-26-12 12:31 PM

Be nice to have more info on what this is all about, what's going to go on there etc, this is very vague

Archon Dan 04-26-12 09:00 PM


Originally Posted by VanquisherMBT (Post 1207229)
Be nice to have more info on what this is all about, what's going to go on there etc, this is very vague

Well, they are in the planning stages and looking for input. Seems they would take input from gamers and hobbyists to determine the details. In fact, the OP says just that. They want the survey results to dictate how they cater to customers. I love the idea of putting the customer's wants first when designing and developing a gaming arena. If they get results that suggest the majority want 40K battles, I imagine they'll go that way, providing appropriately themed tables and terrain. "Vague" is good when starting out and looking for feedback.

RetiredFlagellant 04-27-12 10:18 AM

Thank you all for the interest and support. We are planning to cater for both fantasy and sci-fi players. Some of these boards will also have some cross-over into the other genre (say, if you wanted to fight a 40,000 battle on a board representing a feudal world) but to also make each board unique rather than rows of generic green boards with mismatched terrain. Thank you for the information Reverend; if I can push the business plan forward it might be possible to launch at the UK Games expo.

crabpuff 04-27-12 11:32 AM

Strippers, lots of strippers, nothing says customer service like strippers(only hot ones):victory:

TheReverend 04-27-12 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by crabpuff (Post 1207970)
Strippers, lots of strippers, nothing says customer service like strippers(only hot ones):victory:

In 40k cos-play outfits, that would certainly bring in the punters :victory:

Depending on how big you are planning to make the place you could base it on Warhammer world; lots of game boards and a refreshments area.

Putting refreshments on sale wouldn't cost too much, the tuck shop I run in my office made 500 profit last year, and that was just from me buying the stuff at the pound shop and selling it 5 or 10p less than the shop across the road (100 staff in the office to give you an idea of the market audience).

As long as you feed the profit back into the business you won't have to pay any tax...

Anyway, like I said, if you need some help give me a shout, I have quite a bit of experience in organising events and things.


VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 12:53 PM

I really don't wanna see strippers dressed as space marines, ogryns and ratlings thanks.

Gimme strippers dressed as German panzer captains thank you, with some strippers in French napoleonic uniforms.. skimpy ones

Aramoro 04-27-12 01:05 PM

I didn't know Max Mosley played 40K.

TheReverend 04-27-12 01:19 PM


Originally Posted by VanquisherMBT (Post 1208018)
I really don't wanna see strippers dressed as space marines, ogryns and ratlings thanks.

Gimme strippers dressed as German panzer captains thank you, with some strippers in French napoleonic uniforms.. skimpy ones

I was thinking more Sisters of Battle :spiteful: But I bet Max would like them too :)

VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by TheReverend (Post 1208032)
I was thinking more Sisters of Battle :spiteful: But I bet Max would like them too :)

If its sister repentia, yes.

RetiredFlagellant 04-27-12 02:41 PM

The stripper market is over-saturated in Birmingham(so I've heard).

turel2 04-27-12 04:26 PM

Coventry is in dire need of a place to play.

TheKingElessar 04-27-12 04:37 PM

My main interest/concern would be in having the tables mutable. While unique and interesting tables are fantastic, they are...less than ideal...for any competitive events, and these would naturally be a great way to fill the hall and turn a nice weekend's profit. As a result, I think it'd be important to have the facility to make all the tables as close to identical as can realistically be expected for whatever quantity of board that is.

Having the capacity to move them to create larger boards, for showpieces and Apocalypse games would also be fantastic, player choice is a driving factor for everyone.

Ultra1 04-27-12 04:46 PM

if i were in your area i'd like to see a place with nice terrain. sweet terrain makes games more fun for me. my local game store is small and has a limited selection of terrain and most of it isn't painted. i don't think the owner makes enough to put the serious amounts required into getting nice terrain. you'll have to be careful though, not all people are careful with things that aren't theirs. make sure you have enough space to properly store it, make sure you label the areas so you don't have terrain all jumbled up anywhere they can find to put it. this will help keep it neat and orderly.

i'll also second selling snacks and such, my local only sells sodas and while nice, it'd be better if he sold snacks. he'd probably make a small fortune off peanut M&Ms from myself alone.

also, get starter boxes for games so that newcomers can try them out ie island of blood, black reach, warmachine starter etc. have them painted so the newbies can see how cool everything looks.

a designated area for people to paint would also be nice, buy a couple of tall floor lamps for better light in that area.

get some really nicely painted minis and put them in a display case, this will also help with the lookers, you could let regular patrons store extremely well painted minis in the case so you didn't have to buy and paint them yourself.

well those are my thoughts on the perfect game store. hope that helps.

VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 04:57 PM

I also would like to know about the local gaming interests, is it just 40k and fantasy?, is there known to be a adequate historical gaming scene (and I don't mean flames of war, that's not historical).

How open are the people who may attend to other systems?
Will it be a mostly competetive scene?
What would be some basic rules? (i don't want to come and play against grey plastic or poorly done models, a set skill level system would be nice so people are put against equals in all things)
What's the area considered like? Easy to get to? Quiet area? Shops local to? Public toilets near or in venue?

I know that's part of what this is for, but if its being set up by gamers for gamers there should be a good idea already, if its not being set up by gamers my interest plumets to nil (gw is already staffed by people with no interest in the product)

MidnightSun 04-27-12 05:06 PM

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Only certain skill levels allowed in is both hard to enforce, and a bad concept. If some guy has an international tournament-winning list, gloats when he wins and gets moody when he loses, it's your fault if you play against him. It'd be a lot easier, and better, to allow any skill level to turn up, but perhaps have various sections - the problem that comes in is 'how do you define a skilled player?'


TheKingElessar 04-27-12 05:10 PM

"The World War Two Miniatures Game" isn't historical? Oooookay...

Vanquisher, as I'm sure you've noticed, nobody force you to play with anyone else, nor they with you. If you turn up out of the blue and no-one there has a fully painted army/wants to play against Forge World units/thinks taking 2 Voxes in one squad makes sense with no special weapons to make the good orders usable, then simply wait for someone else to play. I think everyone wins in that scenario.

As for your last bogus claim...Since GW employees are compelled to have armies in each of the systems, if they WERE disinterested, then I'd think that fair enough, since no-one likes to be FORCED to have a hobby...

VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 05:24 PM

It isn't hard to implement skill levels, we manage it down here easy enough by having a experienced club member track there progress, both in how much they paint/quality of paint, and how they progress in games, how much they learn, how they implement what they learn etc etc, and communicating to the other club runners on this persons progress to better help them improve

This easily avoids putting new players against experienced players (until ready) who may scare them off from the game, or an over competetive player who runs the risk of being a waac jerk

I did not say "ww2 miniatures game not historical", I suggest ellesar that if you have troubles reading forum posts and quoting what is said accurately you avoid using them, and since you have blown the rest of what I said into your fantasy realm of just being silly I will not continue to communicate with you

If our club down here can handle this, any club can.

Also good quality boards is very important, as is ALLOT of good quality diverse terrain (this is not cheap so any club must be extremely serious about commiting)

TheKingElessar 04-27-12 05:29 PM

Yes you did, that is Flames of War's tagline.

Also, 'mate', if you can't type people's names correctly, I suggest you refrain from doing it.

Easy way for a club to avoid one of their buddies being a WAAC jerk? Don't have such people in your club...Nobody likes cheaters after all, it's a simple matter to prevent them getting games.

Also, I'd say more that you talk AT people, really...

davespil 04-27-12 05:38 PM

Lets get back to the strippers...

Seriously, I think a few of the GW game boards would be good. You can arrange each of them differently and if they need to be changed its not a big deal. You should also have an area for terain where it is sorrted into different bins. Like city ruins in 1 bin, forest terrain in another. Apocalypse capability is also a must.

VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 05:44 PM

You might want more than 1 "bin" for each, we manage around 15-16 6x4 tables down here quite easily, and trees alone we could easily get through 2-3 very large boxes of them, city terrain we go through loads, and that's including allot more than just 40k and fantasy

You need ALLOT of terrain

Originally Posted by TheKingElessar (Post 1208179)
Yes you did, that is Flames of War's tagline.

Flames of war is not a WWII games, its a GW combination of rules, created by ex GW staff creating a very poor game that poorly represents WWII, its reasons like that (and the poor prices, product quality and continuous release of expensive books constantly adding stupid things to the game) that FOW is utterly forbidden down here

MidnightSun 04-27-12 05:59 PM

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You can't have a system by which progress is kept track of when all the members are new - there ARE no veterans, NOBODY has yet played a game there.


VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 06:04 PM

Yes you can, by talking to them, asking them to fill in some basic questions, its not hard, just asking how long they have played and style of play is enough to get a basic guide, you then work on it further by observing and talking to the players

MidnightSun 04-27-12 06:07 PM

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There's some things called 'lies', implemented by skilled players who want to beat up baby seals.

There's also a thing called 'modesty', which can distort someone's perceptions.

Equally, 'arrogance' can end up with crap players trying to get into the top tables.


VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 06:14 PM

Hence why you only use it as a starting point.

Think of it as a building block, it is a start, you encourage players joining to be honest, if there not it is up to other players and club runners to step in and sort it out, if someone lies you tell them, as a club organizer it is your job to tell them they are not suitable to play against the chosen opponent, and you direct them to somebody more suitable.

If a waac player is beating on an inexperienced new player, speak up and inform somebody, tell an organiser

MidnightSun 04-27-12 06:28 PM

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I think that this is on a large enough scale for the paperwork to be tedious by quizzing each and every 'customer' on their skill level. I've no idea how many people Warhammer World turns over every day, but I imagine it's in the hundreds.

Hell, if it's small scale just look at the member list for Gobstyk's on their website (man I wish I could be on that list...).


Blacksword72 04-27-12 06:30 PM


Originally Posted by davespil (Post 1208193)
Lets get back to the strippers...

Seriously, I think a few of the GW game boards would be good. You can arrange each of them differently and if they need to be changed its not a big deal. You should also have an area for terain where it is sorrted into different bins. Like city ruins in 1 bin, forest terrain in another. Apocalypse capability is also a must.

Strippers, reminds me, members of my gaming club, came up with the suggestion to hold a full-blown 40k game in a strip club....How unique would that be? God, my wife would kill me!!!

But seriously I agree with the above, if you your going to use the GW boards, make sure they are finished and flocked, but most importantly have them sealed with purity seal or any such thing...to many times you get minature sliding down a hill syndrome...A Large selection of terrian is a must so you can do different types mission's games that sort of thing...I don't see alot of players playing planetstrike missions much anymore and the biggest reason I have heard is because of not having the "right" type of terrain. Also a good varity of Terrian will give different game options, ie Necromuda, Warmachine, Legends of the old west ect ect ect

VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 06:34 PM

Well like I say ours manages it, and we regularly get 30-40 people, and that is actually without paperwork, but it is helped by our local FLGS store owner keeping track of customers himself and informing the club committee of them so they can be looked after properly, the paperwork is just an easier way if combining the two.

And really if you have dedicated hobbyists willing to start this sort of thing up, several people voluntering to look after this paperwork and the players should not he an issue, they should be happy to do so as it shows you want it to be a success

TheKingElessar 04-27-12 06:38 PM

Yeah Stella, you might think it's a crap game, but the fact is that it IS a WW2 game, so...

I'd also like to point out you prefer to play with over the 25% recommended terrain amount.

If a cheater is playing an inexperienced newbie as you mention, telling the teacher is not the correct approach - instead, berate the cheat openly for their unacceptable behavior.

MidnightSun 04-27-12 06:42 PM

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Is it official that this guy's Stella now?


VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 06:48 PM

I haven't once mentioned cheaters, although I dislike waac players it does not automatically equal a Cheater.

I also do not understand the extremely negative views on a simple system to try and improve the gaming experience for everyone in a club, it is a simple idea (that can certainly be extended on in greater detail), that requires work from somebody willing to put the time and effort in to help make the experience better for everyone not just themselves.

From certain peoples posts here I can only assume you play in extremely selfish, close minded communities, but just because you are burdened with that doesn't mean you should shoot down a persons idea to help.

In the end you want
1: ease of access (will it be easy to find, park near, and travel to via public transport at an affordable price)
2: surroundings (what shops would be close, what amenities are available,is the area "safe")
3: flexibility (how flexible is the club going to be to cater to gaming needs further that the 2 basics)
4: terrain (you want enough space for I would say at least 10 6x4 boards, and enough terrain to fill 30% of each, even if 30% is not used by players)
5: staff (will you have enough staff with the will to get involved, will there be a first aider?, someone to help in case of fire?, people to organise the tables before gamers arrive, people to help organize the games?, people to look after and guide new and experiences gamers?)
6: and what is the price (entry fee, food etc)

MidnightSun 04-27-12 06:54 PM

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I don't see how it can work; there's a mutual agreement to play a game, and if you agree to play against a WAAC player and lose, you can't whine about it - you've ruined his game by not playing to win, you're as much a victim as they are.


TheKingElessar 04-27-12 06:56 PM


Originally Posted by VanquisherMBT (Post 1208278)
I haven't once mentioned cheaters, although I dislike waac players it does not automatically equal a Cheater.

If it isn't cheating, then it isn't At All Costs, is it?

You're talking about Cheaters, or you're using a term that only rightly belongs to Cheaters to discuss Jerks - well, maybe you've noticed, but jerk-hood is partially subjective, and they exist in ALL sections of the wargaming fraternity.

As long as players adequately communicate what they desire from the game, there is no reason why every pick-up game shouldn't be a success without a need for the Gestapo Tactics you suggest.

VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 07:04 PM

It is not gestapo tactics, its a way to help people, a way to guide them and give them suggestions

If a player in the end decides to play a waac player despite you suggesting they don't, then yes it is there fault, if however they have no idea of there opponent, his skill and attitude it is the clubs fault for not helping make either player aware, they basically abandon these hobbyists.

I am not saying you forcefully make players equal play another, your guiding.

Obviously as I said some people must have shitty gaming enviroments to suggest these are gestapo tactics, or suggest a waac player is as equal a victim as a casual player they prey on.

VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 07:31 PM


New player comes to club, they are nervous, quiet and timid
You people want no part to be played by the staff of this club, so for this example they have no part
Waac player notices new player
Waac player offers new player game
New player being eager and keen to play accepts
Waac player chooses a 6x4 board and sets up terrain to be in his favour because no staff were involved to do it BEFORE the club opens
New player being timid and inexperienced accepts how his superior sets the board
Players deploy
New player has a black reach + battleforce army (a generally accepted starting point)
Experienced player has purifier spam lust (a generally accepted power list)
The game begins
New player is slow to act, shows inexperienced tactics and choices and generally acts like a new player
Waac player exploits RAW to its fullest extent, exploits his list to its fullest extent and within a few turns wins
New player feels disheartened, confused and sad
Waac player...well does what they do best, gloats, boasts and acts like a cock
New player never returns, never buys more models and takes no part in wargaming
The staff taking no active role (as per certain posters obvious wishes and selfish beliefs) are oblivious to what has happened and never deal with the problem
Club fails.

BUT....at least we know, the waac player, was the actual victim in all of this.

TheKingElessar 04-27-12 07:54 PM

Again, dickheads don't need to actually have a good list to be dickheads.

As for that fabricated scenario, which of us said we didn't want staff to play 'any part'? Maybe someone who wasn't me actually said that and I missed it...Midnight, you?

MidnightSun 04-27-12 07:58 PM

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Got nothing, Elessar.

If the timid new player didn't have alarm bells ringing by step 6, he deserved it. Even if there are no staff, there's always a neutral third party. I've done it for when people want to deploy Ymgarl Stealers - rather than finding a piece of paper and pen, hiding the paper, etc., they just tell me which terrain the unit's in. If your opponent's a cock, he'll almost certainly show that he's a cock before the game starts. Thus, alarm bells start before the game's even started - just refuse the game. Generally, you can tell a competitive player by their deployment - tight formations opposite refused flanks are a good example for tournament players, Land Raiders deployed sideways is a good jerk-detector.


VanquisherMBT 04-27-12 07:58 PM

The fact you seem utterly against the idea of staff helping the players and leaving it all to its own devices shows to me you want them to have no active role in organising games

The fact you both are dead set against a very simple idea to try and help also reinforces my belief in this

The fact one of you actually has the audacity to say that a waac player could be a victim further reinforces this.

TheKingElessar 04-27-12 08:06 PM

You are deliberately misunderstanding us.

It is not the job of the staff to arrange games for players, or to police players' skill levels. It is the responsibility of PLAYERS to deal with undesirable elements within their group. If you have such a noobslayer try to beat on the inexperienced, then the other players should take him to one side and tell him such behaviour is unacceptable. If he persists in his bullying, then the players should ensure he has a lot more difficulty getting games, intervening if they see him behave inappropriately.

Eventually the tool will learn that he needs to learn to take others' feelings into account, and basically play nice with others - it's a lesson EVERYONE should learn, at some stage in their lives...the number who haven't, especially in our niche hobby, depresses the hell out of me.

Staff members should NEVER prejudice things by taking sides.

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