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Duke_Leto 04-05-12 11:14 AM

Why I love/hate Know No Fear
 
Not sure if the forum police will allow another thread on KNF but...

P.S. I am not using spoiler tags (can't find them :scratchhead:). You have been warned.

So...

Why I love KNF (in no particular order):
1. It is exactly the right length for the story. Some of the recent HH offerings have felt a little bloated and padded to me (TOD and DL).
2. It is pacey and never drags. It builds nicely and then continues at a sprint that perfectly reflects the nature of the story.
3. It is a great ensemble piece (I have seen people complain that you don't get to spend enough time with some characters [insert your personal favourite] or that the change of character perspective happens too often and is jarring) - I simply do not agree (see next point for why)
4. The book/story is structured like one of those 1970s disaster movies (think Towering Inferno, Earthquake, Poseidon Adventure)
= a large ensemble cast that you only get limited time to build the characters (particularly in Act 1) but required to show the scale of the human tragedy (ie full range of people from different strata of society each with their own tragedy or heroics)
= Three act structure (Act 1 build up to the disaster, introduce characters and storylines, Act 2 Disaster, show the epic scale and revel in the special effects, kill off some characters (ideally some unexpected) to create empathy with their plight, Act 3 The survivors find their way out/get saved/fight back)
5. The Third Person Omniscient Present Tense approach perfectly lends itself to the immediacy of the story, the pacing and the level of the threat that is unfolding
6. The generous scattering of easter eggs and story threads for others to pick up and run with (I hope)
7. In the epilogue we get our first glimpse of something that happened during The Scouring (I really hope we get to see more, even though I know they have already said this will not be part of the HH series).

Why I hate KNF:
Er there is nothing I hate about it. I think this is one of the best HH novels so far. Absolutely superb and perfectly composed for the nature of the story that was being told.

What do others think?

Unknown Primarch 04-05-12 04:36 PM

didnt think it was that great really. besides the addition of oll pious it could have been any spacemarine novel and i didnt really rate the depiction of guilleman. i just feel he seemed like any other chapter master weve come across. as with abnetts russ it seems hes not able to put in all thats needed to portray such a character as a primarch.
and with this id prefer other candidates to come to the fore when deciding who the fans might want to write the final battle between horus and the emperor.

besides the obvious id like to see steve parker for what he did with rynns world and from what im reading with path of the renegade andy chambers should be mentioned on that list. but in the end i think it will be graham mcniell for what hes done with a thousand sons.

Angel of Blood 04-05-12 08:04 PM

Abnett can't portray a Primarch? You kidding me? Horus from Horus Rising is beyond exceptional, fans from all over 40k suddenly really, really liked Horus(like me), he managed to turn the monster into a tragically likeable and excellent character. Sanguinius was also portrayed very well. I enjoyed Guilliman as well, I felt he humanised him well enough whilst still keeping him as the distant and calculating Primarch, apart from the one time where he loses it. Alpharius and Omegon were also excellent, so much so that they just seemed terrible and horribly clichéd when they appeared in Deliverance Lost.

End of the day it's you opinion of course, but for what it's worth I(and I imagine a great deal of people will agree) disagree and think Abnett is very capable of portraying a Primarch.

Unknown Primarch 04-06-12 04:45 PM

like i said the way he was portrayed was no different to any other chapter master weve read in other novels. to be honest i expected him to be alot more hardfaced and practical, with his commanders very regimented and to the point. i think this would have helped convey the point when he does finally snap, instead he just felt like any other marine and not the great being he is supposed to be.

horus he did ok but that was easier because he just had to be a likeable guy and have that silver tongue with people but still have that power over people when needed. this sort of highlights either how well he did write horus or how he didnt do such a great job with guilleman. me personally i dont think he did a great job with guilleman or russ but i enjoyed horus rising muchly.

the twins worked well i think because it was such a twist but with how the whole legion operates its easier to blend the primarchs with their marines and to be honest it works better if they are written that way. maybe thats why russ and guilleman have been written like that due to still be locked into that same thought process but thats just my own speculation thats all.

gridge 04-07-12 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel of Blood (Post 1193770)
Abnett can't portray a Primarch? You kidding me? Horus from Horus Rising is beyond exceptional, fans from all over 40k suddenly really, really liked Horus(like me), he managed to turn the monster into a tragically likeable and excellent character. Sanguinius was also portrayed very well. I enjoyed Guilliman as well, I felt he humanised him well enough whilst still keeping him as the distant and calculating Primarch, apart from the one time where he loses it. Alpharius and Omegon were also excellent, so much so that they just seemed terrible and horribly clichéd when they appeared in Deliverance Lost.

End of the day it's you opinion of course, but for what it's worth I(and I imagine a great deal of people will agree) disagree and think Abnett is very capable of portraying a Primarch.

I completely agree. Abnett has done a fantastic job in my book of developing the primarchs. For the most part they are exactly how I would image them to be. If Guilliman would have been a humorless, inflexible dictator with all the personality of a brick wall I would have been disappointed.

Unknown Primarch 04-07-12 11:12 AM

the problem i have with him not being that humourless, inflexible dictator is thats the whole reason why the emperor maybe didnt choose him as the warmaster. guilleman would have been the most capable to direct the crusade but for his personality.
but know with that being put to question it sort of doesnt make sense not to have made him warmaster. surely the emperor would have known exactly what he was like and from KNF he didnt seem that unapproachable so it kinda spoils the whole reason why he wasnt made warmaster. from KNF and what he was able to do after HH he seems the ideal candidate for warmaster. maybe more will come out to evolve things to explain this but at the minute its either abnett not portraying him correctly or another schoolboy error by the emperor.

deathbringer 04-07-12 12:01 PM

The book was beautiful, abnetts wording made me hard at some points, it was that good. The who novel was so beautifully styled and it reflected on the analytical brilliance of the ultramarines, their precision, their dedication.

The very thing that you disliked I loved, that it showed a side beyond the pure analytical unforgiving gulliman. It showed a gulliman capable of rage, of humour, not some wooden carbard cut out.

That is what abnett does so beautifully, bringing a vivid humanity to primarchs, beyond their base emotions.

If we're arguing why gulliman didn't become warmaster, try because horus was the emperor's beloved son, the one in whom he instilled his vision, his drive and passion. He was the one that truly reflected the emperor's desires and the only one to truly understand and appreciated them. I think especially from the first heretic, the emperor sore gulliman more as a weapon, a tool that would cut with perfect precision.

Loved the book, only one i liked more was a thousand sons and thats only because they are my legion.

Child-of-the-Emperor 04-07-12 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Primarch (Post 1194566)
the problem i have with him not being that humourless, inflexible dictator is thats the whole reason why the emperor maybe didnt choose him as the warmaster. guilleman would have been the most capable to direct the crusade but for his personality.
but know with that being put to question it sort of doesnt make sense not to have made him warmaster. surely the emperor would have known exactly what he was like and from KNF he didnt seem that unapproachable so it kinda spoils the whole reason why he wasnt made warmaster. from KNF and what he was able to do after HH he seems the ideal candidate for warmaster. maybe more will come out to evolve things to explain this but at the minute its either abnett not portraying him correctly or another schoolboy error by the emperor.

Guilliman wasn't not selected as Warmaster because of his personality, thats way off the mark. It's quite simply because Horus was the much more suitable candidate.

ckcrawford 04-07-12 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Primarch (Post 1193664)
didnt think it was that great really. besides the addition of oll pious it could have been any spacemarine novel and i didnt really rate the depiction of guilleman. i just feel he seemed like any other chapter master weve come across. as with abnetts russ it seems hes not able to put in all thats needed to portray such a character as a primarch.
and with this id prefer other candidates to come to the fore when deciding who the fans might want to write the final battle between horus and the emperor.

besides the obvious id like to see steve parker for what he did with rynns world and from what im reading with path of the renegade andy chambers should be mentioned on that list. but in the end i think it will be graham mcniell for what hes done with a thousand sons.

I agree. I expected nothing less to whomever wrote the Battle of Calth. But since it was Dan Abnett, I did expect a momentus piece. I didn't see that. I thought the Imperial Guard in this novel were written a lot better than Guilliman and any other space marines. Maybe it was deadline, but I am disappointed that the best author (or at least the person I consider the best author) seemed to do a very limited job of this kick ass battle.

Svartmetall 04-07-12 02:58 PM

I'm halfway through and fucking loving it - it's already up there with First Heretic, Prospero Burns and Eisenstein as my favourites of the HH series so far.


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