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-   -   Multiple Mindshackle Scarabs question (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/40k-rules-discussion/106605-multiple-mindshackle-scarabs-question.html)

MadCowCrazy 02-28-12 06:22 PM

Multiple Mindshackle Scarabs question
 
Here is a question that is rather important regarding MSS.
If I have a 5 cron court all with MSS and I keep them as a single squad, then assault a single model, does the other player have to do 5 Ld tests or just 1?
Does the model hit itself for each failed Ld test or only once? Do you do 5 Ld tests and once one is failed he hits himself but you dont roll more Ld tests even if it was the first test that was failed.

This is something that can be very important to know if you create a unit like this and they are charged by Mephiston or some other uber solo dude.


What if you attack a unit of 4 models, do you do 5 tests and randomly select models to hit it's own unit?

Deneris 03-01-12 04:00 AM

I'd imagine you can only affect each model once with the MSS... So if the Court of 5 goes after a rival unit of 5, you COULD theoretically control the whole squad (assuming they roll badly enough).

Tim/Steve 03-01-12 07:29 AM

A random model in base contact... so you can affect models more then once, especially if against a solo enemy (such as an MC).

Personally I would say the enemy only roles once, since in doing so he has fulfilled the requirements for each MSS (he has rolled a 3D6 Ld test)... and to do anything else is just evil (even a Ld10 enemy only has a 1in32 chance of passing 5 tests...)

darklove 03-01-12 07:59 AM

I think it would need to test for each swarm of Mindshackle Scarabs attacking its mind. That would make a potential of 5xD3 attacks on itself.

Each Lord has a swarm, and each swarm will attack the target's mind. So I think you should roll for each.

Hobbess 03-01-12 04:41 PM

Myself I'd argue the middleground. In the case of 5 MSS vs 1 foe, the foe would be expected to test up to 5 times, but once it failed a roll it would only be expected to try to hit its own unit (in this case itself) once.

LukeValantine 03-01-12 06:21 PM

Till its FaQed the interpretation is that each mindshackle scarab causes its effect independently. If even one hits then the model can not attack that round, however for each failed check the model does d3 attacks to its unit or its self. Any other interpretation steps beyond the limited amount of info given in the BRB and the codex.

docgeo 03-01-12 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbess (Post 1171825)
Myself I'd argue the middleground. In the case of 5 MSS vs 1 foe, the foe would be expected to test up to 5 times, but once it failed a roll it would only be expected to try to hit its own unit (in this case itself) once.

I agree with this stance. If they would have to do D3 for every fail that would just be TO BROKEN.

Doc

Tim/Steve 03-01-12 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LukeValantine (Post 1171878)
Till its FaQed the interpretation is that each mindshackle scarab causes its effect independently. If even one hits then the model can not attack that round, however for each failed check the model does d3 attacks to its unit or its self. Any other interpretation steps beyond the limited amount of info given in the BRB and the codex.

That would be your interpretation, not the interpretation.. big difference.

I think I would reverse my position having reread the rule: you can be made to take multiple tests for MSS... but you will still only do D3 attacks onto your unit. My reasoning is that the MSS rules say that the randonly selected base contact model must immediately test or suffer _____: there is nothing stopping them being made to test multiple times (although I would hope and FAQ would). However, the D3 attacks are in place of your attacks... and you only get 1 set of attacks, so you can only make D3 attacks no matter how many times the fail the test.

LukeValantine 03-01-12 09:52 PM

The more we look at this rule the more elaborate and problematic it becomes. Also its not a set of attack, but hits. There is no established precedent for your interpretation, but their is one for stacking effects as many units inflict hits rather then attack. The only problem is their are currently no precedent for a single model generating a set hit amount (Most are weapons that inflict a set amount of hits and are generated by a single piece of wargear). However the wording of the rule does steer us away from interpreting it as an attack set, otherwise it would be worded like the bonus attacks that are generated by say a daemon weapon.

In other words I can not think of a single precedent that establishes how multiple mind shackle scarabs should work. However at the very least your interpretation of multiple tests, but only one effect on a single unit should be the most reserved interpretation till its faqed. However if someone argued that a single pass would stop all other shackle effects then that person would find himself hard pressed to find a necron player willing to play against him using his extremely anti-necron interpretation.

Tim/Steve 03-01-12 10:18 PM

Its not a set of atacks... but it happens in place of your attacks. Your attacks is something that can only be replaced once (because once its gone its gone) and so remaining fails could not replace the models attacks again and so only 1 set of D3 hits can be made with MSS. Not using any precident (which you can't do anyway- even GW explains that FAQ don't set precident... which basically means they dont emply proof readers to make sure FAQs don't make opposite verdicts to each other), just basic logic.


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