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-   -   Versus... Ogre Gunlines (https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/warhammer-tactics/103773-versus-ogre-gunlines.html)

Tim/Steve 01-08-12 05:14 PM

Versus... Ogre Gunlines
Been a while since the last Versus... thread went out, but I thought we would get right back into the swing with Ogre Gunlines.

The Versus... threads are all linked off the request page here: Versus... *requests* and are gradually building up into a tactical database for anyone to look into for much needed help with the hardest and most troublesome of opponents.

Ogres are all about the muscle, about bashing the opponent round the head with a trusty club before throwing him on the fire to cook (or just eating raw if you can't be bother to wait)... at least mine are. But there are some other tribes out there (the weird ones), that use all manner of shooty weapons that don't require you to get to within arms distance... sounds like a gnoblarish tactic to me.

Be it leadbelchers sending salvo after salvo of surprisingly accurate long ranged fire power, poisonous sniper maneaters (because who wouldn't give them poison), large blast scraplaunchers KB'ing their way through the weak and the armoured alike, ASL aura monsters that pop out large blasts or the most dangerous cannon in the game (even giving dwarves a run for their money).... my god all that sounds nasty.
... BUT THEN, you add to the mix that these are still ogres, and so will therefore smash its way through most units in combat regardless you have a gunline that doesn't come with the auto-loss combat button.

So do you use an ogre gunline, have you played against one or do you have any thoughts based on seeing them play or reading their rules. What tactics do you think would work to defeat them, or have you found that you've had to change your army list because you just couldn't pull through no-matter what tactics you used...
As always, your fellow heretics need your wise words, tactical genious or just semi-formed babble...

gundamboy195 01-10-12 11:33 PM

While my input may not be 100% (over even 50%) accurate, seeing as I have just started to build a fantasy army, Having looked at tips, videos, even the rule book on the odd occasion, I have put my money were my mouth is and started to build Gunline Ogres. at 2000 points, I started with picking 2 units of 6 Leadbelchers including a bellower and a Thunderfist. Next off, I picked up 2 units of 5 Ironguts with full command and look-out gnoblars. Seeing as I needed a 'Lisk equivelant, 2 Ironblasters looked like they'd do the trick.

As I play an IG gunline, I know that you need a unit that can maneuver into position to clean up trouble spots on the table. That being said, a unit of 4 mournfang Cav with full command, ironfists, heavy armor, and a lookout gnoblar also looked spot on for that role.

The last bit I needed was a General. I started by picking a bruiser BSB, then upped it with a magic banner (banner of eternal flames), a brace of ogre pistols, heavy armor and a look-out gnoblar, and sticking him in a unit of leadbelchers. General-wise though, I've heard magic is needed so a Butcher would be the big bossman for the boys. Using Lore of the Great Maw, a sword of striking, an enchanted shield, and a talisman of protection. 2K exactly. any thoughts on how this would go over?

Ratvan 01-11-12 07:26 AM

I have not yet faced Ogre's at all yet alone gunline. So this is pure speculation. SO I set about planning a Gunline Ogre list for my Wood Elves/Bretonnians to fight

My first thought is, panic...after a while I calmed down a little and started to examine things.

Now Ogre's although big, scary and capable of damage at range and in CC are not without their downsides. The standard ogre bull comes in at approximately 30 points and has impressive Movement, Strength, Toughness, Wounds and Attacks.

Immediately the standout factor to me is the low Leadership (ok Average at 7) how many times in games have you rolled above a 7 on your leadership tests? I know that I have multiple times and fortunately my BSB/General was within range to allow a re roll.

The other factor is the range of Initiative at 2-4. So this is obviously great for spells that force casulties on failed initiative tests....we all know them so I wont go into them.

Finally since they are effectively an army of monsters, thankfully you are not going to experience a large amount of troops, so armies such as Skaven, Goblins and to a certain extent The Empire can attempt to swamp these units in combat and lock them in using steadfast.

Bretonnians can shatter these units on the charge (with a Lance or 2!) and due to thier special formation can expect fewer losses in return.

Wood Elves, this is what I hope to be playing a lot of again. The advantage of MSU as I see it is that you should outnumber your opponant in terms of units and that would be your strength. You force the Ogre player to either focus all his fire on a couple of units or overkill against one unit, you are taking the fire of an entire army on a 120 ish point unit (I'd gladly make that sacrifice) while this is happening, focus all of my fire on one unit at a time forcing panic tests and hopefully making the unit flee (leadership 7!) if a unit runs I WILL ensure that it leaves the board so will escourt them off the table with an Eagle, Glade Riders ect.

Just a few thoughts to start this rolling!

neilbatte 01-11-12 02:50 PM

The gunline just isn't effective enough in game anymore so for the moment I've shelved it.
On paper it looks like it could win but there is never enough points to fit in all the components you need and every time you raise the points then the amount you need raises with it.
The gunline was the answer to expensive high init armies in 7th, when the rules changed it killed it with the old book and hordes just made it harder.
The new book added some elements that on paper makes the list viable but the cost involved tailoring your list to each army (which I don't normally do but becomes neccessary with the ogres in 8th) unfortunately put's a competatively themed gunline out of my price range.

Orochi 01-11-12 03:29 PM

Standard comment from me here. Me and my PG block. Gotta love that 4+ ward.

Other than clever deployment, careful use of terrain to block fire lanes, fast movmment up the board...

I don't think I can ad much else yet.

HiveMinder 01-11-12 08:52 PM

As I'm a Skaven player, I have a few options to deal with ogres. First off, ogre gunlines don't scare me at all. there is no way they will kill enough rats to affect my strategies at all.

The first and foremost tactic is to run slaves. Lots and lots of slaves. Not only will they soak up all the fire, but they will keep the ogres locked in combat while I lob Poison Wind Mortars at them. Boy do I love weapons that ignore Toughness and Armor saves!

Options two and three come from the Skaven spells of Plague. Wither is a big help in dealing with ogres, as it can permanently reduce the Toughness of the unit, making them far easier for my rats to wound. Additionally, Bless With Filth will give a unit poisoned attacks, so even the slaves that are acting as a quagmire can do some potentially serious damage, especially if I also manage to cast Death Frenzy, giving the little 2 pt buggers 3 poisoned attacks each.

MrPete 01-22-12 01:02 AM

With Vampire Counts, i'd run huge sized units of zombies 10 wide to screen my necros, who buff zombies with Vanhels. Dire Wolves to taste. If you can get some flanking done with Vargheists go for it, and with Ld7 on average Ogres will hate Terrorgheists.

seermaster 02-14-13 09:54 PM

There is a problem with running hordes vs ogre gun line and that is simple that they can take 200 noblers and 24 leadbelchers supported by cannons charge knoblers take all there stand and shoot fire and dt tests plus hq with an amazing majic law

Stephen_Newman 02-17-13 10:46 PM


Originally Posted by seermaster (Post 1339955)
There is a problem with running hordes vs ogre gun line and that is simple that they can take 200 noblers and 24 leadbelchers supported by cannons charge knoblers take all there stand and shoot fire and dt tests plus hq with an amazing majic law

However this plan has one HUGE flaw. Gnoblers have atrocious LD values and without a BSB the chances of Gnoblers runnig off at the slightest loud bang is rather high.

My armies are both Tomb Kings and an all plague Skaven force (I also have a small amount of Chaos but since I have not used it much I can't really comment).

My Tomb Kings suffer against Ogre gunlines. Mainly because it is Chariot based which limits how many men I have on the table. However in the Tomb Kings list there are plenty of options that either can render the gunline moot (such as a huge 40+ man block of Skellie Archers with Khalida for poisoned arrows) or units and spells that force initiative tests (which Ogres do not like) such as Sepulchral Stalkers, spells from the Lores of Death or even units which can either get their very fast (skellie horsemen) or even are tough enough to get their in one piece (Necrosphinxes). Additionally it may be wise to invest in a small unit of Carrion or a couple of Tomb Scorpions since these units can deither play the roll of distraction or charge the Ogres to stop them shooting whilst the rest closes.

As for my Plague Skaven I take advantage of the average LD values. Plagueclaws are your friend here as even a single wound causes a panic check on Ogres. Rack up enough of them and they will fall. Additionally as has been stated the spell Whither is a pain for Ogres. Then again Whither is the one spell hated by most players in my group since the permanent -1 toughness hurts a lot of opponents. Censer Bearers are also useful for getting close intothe Ogres thanks to being Skirmishers and they hit hard in combat as well.

seermaster 02-18-13 08:22 AM

Well its true there leadership sucks but you can probably fit bsb in there aswell, and slaughtermasters have fairly good leadership. alternativly greasius could come in handy. and minus 1 toughness spell is awesome for plague skaven, but most of the ogre spells are buffs. regen and plus 1 toughness are both good and sorta cancil out the minus toughness.

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