Developing a more 'mature' gaming system. - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
Other Systems For the discussion of non GW games such as Malifaux, Dystopian Wars, Flames of War, AT43 and Secrets of the Third Reich.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-27-08, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Hespithe's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,648
Default

Some of my initial thoughts....

d10 system for greater flexibility
Different values across all attributes, to include movement speed
Possible Psionics and other unexplainable phenomenon
Additional attribute along the lines of Divine Intervention that may be able to alter unit circumstances, once per unit per game...
Customization of all lead models to various degrees, ensuring that any actual models very closely resemble the rules/stats for the character the model represents.


But... is the game to continue with a 'skirmish' style setup, or like WHFB, would block units be more enjoyable? A mix depending upon unit? Various types of units as in 40K? Would we limit tech, or but a minimum level into play?

I'd love to see those involved divide into teams.... 5 'basic races' each with 1 to 3 vying factions within those 'basic races', giving us about a dozen possible model ranges to choose from when production and design of the models become a major focus. But first, a basic system design must be set up. We'd need to agree on certain aspects and then go from there.

Would all seriously interested please PM me with your name and what aspects of the hobby/this gaming system you would be most willing to promote.

Ya guys make me feel loved, lol. Cheers!
Hespithe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-27-08, 08:44 PM
Member
 
32BitHero's Avatar
32BitHero's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Luis Obispo County
Posts: 93
Reputation: 1
Default

Sounds great a rpg style system for Leaders? Just throwing that out theere i love gainign experience after battles its just so satisfying.

I think certain units should be skirmish types and some should be unit types this would create alot of flexibility.

I would love to play a sci/fi game but i definetely feel we could incorporate fantasy elements If a race doesnt use as much firearms maybe they use scouting, salvaging, sheer strength or lots of health??? I sent you a Pm btw

I would love to design a race or at least help with one with you.
32BitHero is offline  
post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-27-08, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Hespithe's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,648
Default

Sweet, mate... Thanks. I'm gonna make a list of willing participants in this project and on the next weekend will post a weak outline of what we can do to get the ball rolling.
Hespithe is offline  
 
post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-27-08, 08:56 PM
Member
 
32BitHero's Avatar
32BitHero's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Luis Obispo County
Posts: 93
Reputation: 1
Default

Just a thought about the d10 system do you think it might be easier with a d12 system since d6's are much more available or will that get too complicated? Different stats for units would be great i think there is alot more to an individual or a group that 40k gives them.

Is a point system the only way to go or is there someother system we could use??? Does anyone have any ideas, i have only seen point systems to keep track of troops in games.
32BitHero is offline  
post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-27-08, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
Hespithe's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,648
Default

I've only ever seen point values as well. Another idea would be great.

As for the dice... I'd like to steer clear of typical d6's. These are very very common, somewhat too common, for tabletop games, while d20's are just the same for RPGs.... I'd like ours to be customizable to the point that it could mimick traits from both. But, while I really do like the d20 systems, those dice would simply be too difficult to use en masse on the tabletop. I'm not sure yet how many dice might be required, as we havent delved that deeply into the project, but I do remember that I had little problems with d10s. Using 2d6's would only give results from 2 to 12, leaving off that '1'. I'm sure that we can find something very interesting for that '1' to represent, lol. Still, this is up for reasonable debate.

Keep in mind, that while this is in part my baby, it is as a whole the project of everyone who becomes involved. I'll not play lord dictator, but I'll not let the project get outside of my control either. If it turns out that using 2d6 is the best method for the majority of us concerned with the project, then 2d6 it will be.
Hespithe is offline  
post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-27-08, 09:15 PM
Member
 
32BitHero's Avatar
32BitHero's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Luis Obispo County
Posts: 93
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hespithe View Post
I've only ever seen point values as well. Another idea would be great.

Keep in mind, that while this is in part my baby, it is as a whole the project of everyone who becomes involved. I'll not play lord dictator, but I'll not let the project get outside of my control either. If it turns out that using 2d6 is the best method for the majority of us concerned with the project, then 2d6 it will be.
Im just glad you want to do this and listen to poor college kids lol!
32BitHero is offline  
post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-27-08, 09:24 PM
Senior Member
 
pyroanarchist's Avatar
pyroanarchist's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coshocton, Ohio
Posts: 679
Reputation: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32BitHero View Post
As far as Close combat goes i think locking people is incredibly tactically fun but you are right it doesnt make sense maybe half movement and possible casualties? That would make alot more sense.
I agree with it being a lot of fun to lock troops that don't really want to fight you. My favorite it throwing Zerks into a Dev squad or the like. But I don't think it makes sense for the squad to not have an option. They should definately take penalties for retreating, and I think that they shouldn't be able to shoot anything other than pistols (if that) while retreating.

I don't know how hard it would be to loot weapons during a game. You may end up with some issues here. It sounds like a lot of fun, but if the weapon isn't modelled on it will be hard to remember who has it, where it is, etc.

Maybe give every army access to some kind of weapon platform (similar to IG's heavy teams only you would have to position a squad to man the platform). They could choose the gun on the platform and each would have a different point cost. They would be cheaper than a tank with the same guns, but they would be immobile. This could even be fully customizable with points cost for different AV's for the platform, maybe upgrade from tripod weapon, to sandbag emplacement, to bunker. Maybe an option to shoot the troop manning the platform but they would get cover saves depending on which type of platform. It would be easy to incorporate this into the looting situation if you went that direction. If you kill the squad, but don't blow the bunker you could make use of the platform yourself.

I haven't played WHFB yet, so I'm not sure how the block style works myself. I'll take a good look at that in the next couple days and get back to you. I love the psionics idea as well Hes.

Has anyone decided on a timeline yet though? Is this past, present, future, or a galaxy far far away? I really like the idea of having a 'savage' race, an extremely advanced race, and some in the middle somewhere. Are we going to develope races based off of current mythology? I really like games that have some connection to what is already known, it seems to be easier to get into that way and draws more attention.

Any ideas on alignment of any races yet. I'm guessing we'll want at least one major "good guy" race and one major "bad guy" race, but what about the others. Do we want to keep them kinda vaugue so that people can draw their own conclusions and debate about if they are good or evil?

I really, really like the divine intervention idea Hes. I think the 'good' races should get bonuses to saves or anything that helps them to survive. The 'bad' races, however, should get bonus's to their ability to do harm instead.

I was wondering, how hard would it be to work out a system where you accumulate points for wiping out units (fanatical fervor or something) and get a bonus for it, and has any system done this? You would use x amount of points to get this bonus, and y amount for that bonus, etc. The bonus's could be extra movement, extra shots, re-rolls, or anything else you guys can think of.

I'll keep brain storming and send you a PM Hes.

Blood for the Blood God!

Brass Scorpion Project

Last edited by pyroanarchist; 04-27-08 at 09:44 PM. Reason: Edit: Didn't realize how much was posted in the last hour and didn't expect a 2nd page already. I had more to add.
pyroanarchist is offline  
post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-27-08, 09:35 PM
Member
 
32BitHero's Avatar
32BitHero's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Luis Obispo County
Posts: 93
Reputation: 1
Default

Thats sounds like fun, i just like to think of a battlefield as an ever evolving place and to me it doesnt seem like GW really does that to the extent that im thinking of and i would really love to play a game that does.

More peole need to get in this thread !!!
32BitHero is offline  
post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-27-08, 09:50 PM
Senior Member
 
Red Orc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,615
Reputation: 1
Default

I know I'm coming into this a little late, so sorry if you've mentally got past this but... oh bugger, while it logged me out there's been a load of traffic on this, and Hes says he doesn't want a d6. Oh well, here's my hour-old and already out-of-date thoughts.

In the following "WH" generally refers to WHFB or WH40k more or less equally; if I mean 40k in particular, I'll say 40k; and D&D refers to the editions I know, from many years ago. "D&D before version numbers, when it was made by TSR" let's say.

To my mind, three of the best things about 40k are the (relatively) small scale of battles, the use of d6 and the lack of loads of tables.

I'd like to see something that combined these with a rational and consistent approach to what the numbers actually mean. So a relatively simple, fast skirmish game with logical rules that could be increased in complexity and/or detail as desired

My thoughts (many years old, and never taken beyond a certain point) would have something like "skill levels" - lvl 1 is rubbish, lvl 6 is Roland/Lancelot/Robin Hood/Darth Vader/Gandalf kinda territory. Models would have an "attack" skill and a "defence" skill. These would be modified by armour, magic, special weapons etc (btw, I would roll psionics up in the magic system - never understood why AD&D did otherwise). Also any other skills necessary - magic, flying, concealment, poison identification, navigation, repairing a spaceship etc.

No reason why these couldn't be subdivided as much as the system needs - eg, in WH, missile weapons and melee weapons are treated seperately (two "skills") but a hand weapon is a hand weapon, so needs one skill. In D&D axes, daggers, short swords, normal swords are treated differently. If you were using the system for a more RPG feel, you could be lvl1 in short-sword and axe, but lvl4 in dagger and n-sword; lvl3 in throwing daggers, lvl2 with a short-bow, etc.

So a successful "skill use roll" for a weapon would indicate that it's on its way to the intended victim, who could then defend/dodge/parry by use of a defence skill roll. I've never been convinced by the "hit-wound-armoursave" way that WH does it; nor by the "subtract target AC from 20... tell you what call it THAC0, we'll work it out from there" of D&D. Something with more complexity than D&D but less than WH (hah! who would have expected that?) seems best, or maybe I just think targets should get the chance to parry. Good old Runequest.

I quite like the rough and ready feel of WH as far as damage goes... moving between WH and D&D, a successful blow with a sword will kill a (normal) model in WH (1 wound of damage to a 1-wound Empire or IG trooper); likewise, a successful blow with a sword (d8 dam) would kill a level 1 fighter (d8hp). So "wounds" in WH are similar to levels/HD in D&D anyway: a sword in WH doesn't do less damage than a D&D sword - it just doesn't have the gradations, because in D&D it matters if you survive, in WH it matters if you're incapacitated. Conceptually at least, the number of wounds a WH character has corresponds to the number of dice a D&D player uses (incidently I also think this is a useful starting point for a 40k RPG, but that's another story)... but there would be no problem, I think, in using both systems more or less simultaneously. "1" can be absolute (as in WH currently) or it can mean 1d6 - eg, where a character with "2 wounds" is in a unit of troops with "1 wound", the damage to the troops can be thought of as "1 damage v 1 wound" like in WH, but the damage to the character can be "1d6 damage against 2d6 hit points".

Of course, there's nothing in what I've said that specifically applies to a d6 system. The numbers are kinda arbitrary, in themselves. It matters not whether Legolas has a bowskill of 5/6, or 8/10, or 85/100. It's pretty much of a muchness, just depends on how many numbers you think are necessary. I'd say few, rather than many - I like to keep things simple!

Just a few thoughts anyway...

:the taming of the cyclops:

"Well it's Forty-one Thousand Nine Hundred Sixty-nine OK -
Gotta war across the Milky Way - "
Iggius Popiscus and the Stoogii, "41,969"


Red Orc is offline  
post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 04-27-08, 10:41 PM
Senior Member
 
pyroanarchist's Avatar
pyroanarchist's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Coshocton, Ohio
Posts: 679
Reputation: 1
Default

I like Red Orc's point here. I like the D6 system because it keeps things relatively simple. If what we come up with can't be worked into a D6 system thats fine, but I prefer the D6 system for simplicity. Definately makes things easier to remember, especially when you have a lot of systems memorized and have to remember which is which. Honestly, the D6 system is part of the reason I like GURPS a lot more than D&D. I really like the control the user has over the GURPS system and thats the biggest reason I got into it, but using D6's helped sway me as well. It could get cumbersome trying to roll out 35 D10's or D12's for a round of close combat. I think a D10 or D12 system would be great if we kept the system low scale. If the system evolves into small skirmishes of 20 to 30 models D10's would work great, but if you're getting up there in model count it gets a bit harder to manage.

Red Orc, I really like your relation to D&D with the sword D8 damage/lvl 1 D8 health comparison. That could really help with the developement of this system (by the way we have to come up with a name once we have the basics decided on). It will also help me out with the 40k GURPS campaign a few friends and I want to try out.

Blood for the Blood God!

Brass Scorpion Project
pyroanarchist is offline  
Closed Thread

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Tabletop Wargames > Other Systems

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome