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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 11:18 AM Thread Starter
 
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Heya All,

I would like to start an threat here for all people that have died in the protests in Iran. I do not know how exactly too say this, but I think every voice can be heard, please show your respect by posting here, discussing here and mooring here for the victims of this election.

--

I had already chosen sides with Mousavi before the elections, for someone of my age, that is planning on joining the navy in near future, Mousavi is the man I want in Iran. He would start cooperating with the first world when he was chosen, and that alone was enough. In my eyes that means that Iran would be a base to helping the Middle-East. What's your opinion, please post!

--

Q

Last edited by Qualtor; 06-25-09 at 11:40 AM.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
 
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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Is there none who want to reply on the subject, or are you guys just all too good to show some respect? Ow wait, maybe you don't read the news forums XD?!
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 11:55 AM
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Maybe they don't want to comment?

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or are you guys just all too good to show some respect?
Not cool. Stop spamming the thread and give it time. Trolling for a response isn't the right way to behave.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 12:03 PM
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Maybe there's nothing to say. Change is hard, especially for a backwards country like that. I'm sorry their dead, but there'll be a lot more die before the country catches up to the West...better to wait until the protesters win, or stop protesting, rather than stopping every 5 mins because another is shot by the Revolutionary Guard...
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 01:56 PM
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I just wish the west would let them be- it's their country, for good or for bad its up to them to solve. Interfearing will only result in more hatred and envy then there is now (there were even pro-democratic rallies with death to america banners on the news a few months ago).

I feel bad for the people involved and would obviously like to see free and fair elections held but if they are then whatever view the people hold should be listened to. Its neither free or fair if its influenced by outside powers (though that is a hell of a lot less bad then doing it with a gun).

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 06:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Qualtor View Post
i agree with obama {i thinks thats the first time i've ever said that} since the end of world war 2 we've wanted to spread democracy throughout the world and the actions of the goverment of iran seem to be anti-democratic.



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I just wish the west would let them be- it's their country, for good or for bad its up to them to solve. Interfearing will only result in more hatred and envy then there is now (there were even pro-democratic rallies with death to america banners on the news a few months ago).
i cant speak for all americans but i feel like it hard for us to just leave everyone alone. i know its the same old " last time america wasnt involved 6 million jews died" argument but we are already being blamed for many things both which we caused or were involved in and some where we had nothing to do with it. i know i'd much rather have have the middle east mad at us then have a seconded "holocaust" blamed on us.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-25-09, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Winst0n View Post
i agree with obama {i thinks thats the first time i've ever said that} since the end of world war 2 we've wanted to spread democracy throughout the world and the actions of the goverment of iran seem to be anti-democratic.

Sorry, no. Since the end of WW2, the US has attempted to stop the spread of Communism, often by helping found despotic regimes. Democracy is a relatively recent concern.

i cant speak for all americans but i feel like it hard for us to just leave everyone alone. i know its the same old " last time america wasnt involved 6 million jews died" argument but we are already being blamed for many things both which we caused or were involved in and some where we had nothing to do with it. i know i'd much rather have have the middle east mad at us then have a seconded "holocaust" blamed on us.
What the fuck? No-one with a functional brain blames the US for the Holocaust - I believe they were wrong not to enter the war until they were attacked at Pearl Harbour, but that's IMO, and had on bearing on the concurrent actions in Central Europe. I really don't know why you posted this.

Also, the Middle East is a font of terrorism. I live in Northern Ireland. You do NOT want terrorists to be angry with you, any more than they already are. If the Saudi government decides to fund terrorism, prepare to see at least a 100% increase in attempted attacks on US soldiers, and soil.

This isn't a debate about US Foreign Policy. What's happening in Iran is horrible, but I see the question here as more 'Is it necessary' rather than 'Should we be doing more'
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-26-09, 04:39 AM
 
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What the fuck? No-one with a functional brain blames the US for the Holocaust
Also, the Middle East is a font of terrorism. I live in Northern Ireland. You do NOT want terrorists to be angry with you, any more than they already are. If the Saudi government decides to fund terrorism, prepare to see at least a 100% increase in attempted attacks on US soldiers, and soil.

This isn't a debate about US Foreign Policy. What's happening in Iran is horrible, but I see the question here as more 'Is it necessary' rather than 'Should we be doing more'
i posted this because the people we are dealing with do not have or at least choose not to use funcitional brains. and also that was meant to support obama answer to the accusations that the U.S. started the riots.
and the part about america being involved in ww2 was an answer to Tim/Steve wish for the west to leave Iran alone. i probably should have been more clear with the connections and i appolgize for obscureness but it does directly relate to the topic seeing as how the goverment of Iran did acuse the U.S. of starting those riots.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-26-09, 11:30 AM
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Since the topic originally was to recognise the suffering of the protesters, I would agree it is unfortunate that people have been hurt or killed.

To answer some of the other points, the reason Iran are so anti- the American led Western hegemony is because America and the UK have fucked them around something chronic in the past. Just look up any source that details the history of Iran, they have been invaded by Russia and Britain the latter supported by the US, each and every time because one of the large Imperialist powers fancied something the Iranian's had. Russia and Britain wanted land and took it. The US and Britain wanted access in WWII and the oil fields controlled by Iran and took it.

Dr. Mohammed Mosaddeq was democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran in 1951 and was deposed by a coup financed by MI5 and the CIA in 1953, he was imprisoned under house arrest and died there in 1967. He tried in vain to reduce the foreign control and meddling in Iran. He wanted Iran to be a sovereign nation without other countries controlling it (not an unreasonable wish really) and nationalised the oil industry that had been controlled by the British up until that point. The CIA gave some bullshit justification by linking him to 'the spread of Communism' which was their evil spectre of choice at the time, but this whole episode was later looked at as outrageous on review.

The UK and the US got rid of a democratically elected leader of Iran because they wanted to continue stealing another nation's oil. They installed the Shah who then went about suppressing all political opposition violently. The Shah enjoyed the support of the UK and US and in return gave them access to the vast majority of Iran's oil. Due to the brutality of the Shah's rule, Ayatollah Sayyid Ruhollah Musavi Khomeini (the 1st Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran) spoke out against him and was exiled with US support. In 1978 he led the Islamic Revolution and deposed the Shah.

In 1980 Saddam Hussein supported by the West went to war with Iran and by 1988 up to 1 million Iranian's had died, some 10% due to chemical weapons deployed by the Western supported Saddam Hussein. Since then there have been a series of elected Presidents, two moderates in particular that stood for pro-business, pro-economy and freedom of expression and tolerance of others within the ideals of the Islamic Revolution, though how much they achieved towards the latter two ideals is questionable. They were then succeeded by Ahmadinejad who as we know dislikes the West a lot.

So in actual fact it is not in the slightest bit unreasonable for Iranian's to view the West as interfering and two-faced. As it happens Iran have also filed complaints to Interpol and the UK and US government that terrorists operating inside Iran are currently living in Europe and the US without arrest. Personally I don't agree with the idea of a nation led by religious leaders, since they cannot be entirely objective in my opinion due to their religion. However I also don't agree with the concept that because capitalist run democracy 'works' for the US and the UK it is reasonable to impose it on everyone else.

The idea that anyone who doesn't want democracy in the form extolled by oil barons in the White House and business leaders in the Houses of Parliament, must therefore be some sort of commie or oppressive religious nut is just bullshit. If you support the idea of American democracy across the world then do it because you agree that big business should control everything, from the products you buy, to the papers you read to the politicians you vote for. Don't do it for some ridiculous notion that it is making life better for other people.

Last edited by squeek; 06-26-09 at 11:32 AM.
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