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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-08, 02:14 PM
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This idea that America might hiccup and suddenly become a socialist state without duly concerned citizens having a say so is hilarious. From an outsiders point of view your choice of candidates is right wing Obama or right wing McCain, the difference politically between them is hardly worth mentioning when you compare them to true left wing politicians.

It is a little surprising that otherwise intelligent and articulate people are taken in by these ridiculous press slander campaigns, and believe without question that a little more tax from rich people = decline in to a Stalinist dictatorship. For a start there are plenty of socialist countries that are doing just fine and have been doing fine for a long time, without the 'inevitable slide in to communism' being a problem. This laughable fear of anything more left wing than your Democrats (who by anyone elses standards are right wing) is a bit outdated now, the Cold War ended a long time ago! All it seems to be doing is distracting voters from actual politics.
The American public would definitely have a say, if not with our votes, than with our rifles.

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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-08, 02:36 PM
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Socialism itself isn't bad. I mean, total equality would be brilliant, no? See, what we've been referring to is socialism taken a step too far, which in a way is communism. So, socialism isn't bad, but where the leaders of countries take it is. Our idea of communism and socialism is marred by the USSR and Chinese regimes. Those are not socialist or communist, but totalitarian (USSR) and capitalist paradise (China).

Still, don't we have a democratic socialist government in the UK?


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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-08, 02:46 PM
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Yes we do have a socialist govement here in the UK, and even the Tories are more socialist than say a US goverment would be.

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-08, 03:58 PM
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Labour haven't been socialist since the 90's.

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-08, 04:07 PM
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Quoted from anouther thread:

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Originally Posted by Steel Rain View Post
Socialism is bad because it encourages mediocrity. You are never allowed to reach your full potential. In a socialist society, people like Bill Gates, Michael Dell, and the Ford family would have to give away all the wealth that they earned, yes EARNED, from building their companies. That's not fairness. Socialism is only fair to the poor and to disaffected college kids. Equality of opportunity is the only true fairness in the world.
Personally I find this idea absurd. Firstly, socialism does not stop you from reaching your intellectual potential. You have education for every student, and these students learn and develop the same as they would in a Capitalist state. You'll have bright people and not-so-bright people. Socialism is about sharing WEALTH, not forcing you what you can SPEND it on. If a commune of socialists wanted to build a space rocket, why couldn't they? But my point is no, you wouldn't have large mega-corperations, but you also would have a lot less poverty and social ills. Would you get children bullied at school for not affording the same clothing as you? Course not. Same style.. perhaps. But that can't be eroded out. Either way you'd get a greater abundance of people who are able to stimulate their minds rather than having to work two jobs to pay the gas bill. Because it HAPPENS. Capitalism ISNT all happy happy everyone gets their own way in life. It's about who has the best circumstances wins, be that wealthy parents or a strong will. Alot of people have neither, and in a world where extremes are taken out, people have the oppitunuty for education, research, art and expressing personal freedoms.

Because, yes, I truely love watching rich talentless rockstars daughters throw wild parties for thousands of pounds and then recieving money to tell us about it on television when I know people who can't afford to eat.

Socialism isn't fantastic, but there are times when it's better than what we have. Can't we just have both? *Sad face*

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Labour haven't been socialist since the 90's.
Pretty much. Labour are Tory as much as Tory is labour. It no longer matters who you support or vote for, you'll get exactly the same goverment. I'm defiantly voting Liberal for this election, not because I like their policies, but perhaps for somebody else who can challenge these two ruling parties.

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-08, 04:35 PM
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Labour haven't been socialist since the 90's.
and that, sadly, is the reason that the BNP are gaining their popularity in the UK.
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-08, 04:38 PM
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and that, sadly, is the reason that the BNP are gaining their popularity in the UK.
I though that was becasue the Tories had tried to be less right wing so left a gaping big hole for the BNP to jump in.

Actually you are right new Labour is not as a socialist as old labour. In fact the most socialsist party in the UK has to be LibDems, who are not likly to get into power anytime soon.

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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-08, 07:15 PM
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Personally I find this idea absurd. Firstly, socialism does not stop you from reaching your intellectual potential. You have education for every student, and these students learn and develop the same as they would in a Capitalist state. You'll have bright people and not-so-bright people. Socialism is about sharing WEALTH, not forcing you what you can SPEND it on. If a commune of socialists wanted to build a space rocket, why couldn't they? But my point is no, you wouldn't have large mega-corperations, but you also would have a lot less poverty and social ills. Would you get children bullied at school for not affording the same clothing as you? Course not. Same style.. perhaps. But that can't be eroded out. Either way you'd get a greater abundance of people who are able to stimulate their minds rather than having to work two jobs to pay the gas bill. Because it HAPPENS. Capitalism ISNT all happy happy everyone gets their own way in life. It's about who has the best circumstances wins, be that wealthy parents or a strong will. Alot of people have neither, and in a world where extremes are taken out, people have the oppitunuty for education, research, art and expressing personal freedoms.

Because, yes, I truely love watching rich talentless rockstars daughters throw wild parties for thousands of pounds and then recieving money to tell us about it on television when I know people who can't afford to eat.

Socialism isn't fantastic, but there are times when it's better than what we have. Can't we just have both? *Sad face*



Pretty much. Labour are Tory as much as Tory is labour. It no longer matters who you support or vote for, you'll get exactly the same goverment. I'm defiantly voting Liberal for this election, not because I like their policies, but perhaps for somebody else who can challenge these two ruling parties.
all this nifty stuff costs money, socialism pays for it by taxing people. The reason ABBA left Sweden was the tax rate, which made them unable to make a living after paying the bills for doing a show and dividing the rest between the band members.
Socialism does promote mediocrity by discouraging excellence. Why would anyone work to make more money, if it was just going to be taken away so some lazy jerk could collect it. As for less poverty and socialills. Bull the primary effect is to make everyone poor, and new social ills would crop up. "My dispensation check isn't big enough" or the inequality of laboring for the same pay as the guy that works on a computer all day in an air-conditioned office.

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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-08, 08:59 PM
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Socialism is (in a capitalist nation) simply the expenditure of public funds on public property, state ownership of key industries & services and tax relief and maybe some benefit payments for low-income families/individuals. At the cost of some extra taxes & controls on private enterprise and the rich....
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-30-08, 09:02 PM
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Socialism is (in a capitalist nation) simply the expenditure of public funds on public property, state ownership of key industries & services and tax relief and maybe some benefit payments for low-income families/individuals. At the cost of some extra taxes & controls on private enterprise and the rich....
not quite, the taxes apply to all. In a "capitalist" society, the poor tent to pay for the tax burden, as the tax code allows for exemptions, and other loopholes that allow the rich to shirk their burden.

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