Paris Attacks - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
Off Topic Totally off-topic chat in here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-16-15, 04:15 PM
Closet Dictator
 
Old Man78's Avatar
Old Man78's Flag is: Ireland
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sector 7 G
Posts: 3,351
Reputation: 34
Default

To defeat Isis you will have to wash your hands in blood, they embed themselves in civilian areas so no matter how careful, you cannot help but kill innocents, it is part of their strategy, as it gains them recruits horrifies the west and is demoralising on westen soldiers.

These guys are middle eastern nazis, the only way to defeat them is by wiping the fuckers out, end of! There is no pretty, sanitised, clean way to do this, Isis have created a devils alternative so no matter what you do, innocent people will die, but the longer they are left, the more people will die and be raped and tortured by their nazi regime.

These scum only respect and believe in might equals right, that illusion of final victory needs to be taken from them. And people with religious sensitivities need to be TOLD, to fuck off and if people mock your faith turn the other god damned cheek like normal human being and ignore it, and anyone who preaches hate is fucking deported or jailed.

In conclussion, to defeat a nazi ideology today, you have to do today what people did before! You dont send a rapid dog away, you dont tie it up, you put it fucking down!

Old Man78 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-16-15, 06:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,685
Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Squared View Post
Even if we weren't involved in the Middle east, these Donkey Caves would still be around.
Their minds are weak, and easily filled with nonsense, and combined with the testosterone of young men, they avenge themselves in the only way they can, upon the defenceless.
They will be beaten, eventually, but there will be more horror first. At the moment they don't understand that all they create is hatred, a re-doubled resolve and disgust. An abhorrence of their ideals, and an overwhelming desire to eradicate them.
They can try and destroy "The West", but unfortunately for them, if they do it one person at a time, it will take until the end of the baryonic universe to achieve their aims. There are far fewer of them, and every day, thanks to the combined efforts of every civilised nation on earth through arrest, diplomacy and direct violent military action, there are fewer of them.
Fuck them, and their ideology. I sincerely hope that we now re-double our efforts in Syria and destroy everything that they are trying to build.
Yeah they would still be around but it would be self regulating. Eventually someone would rise to power with the cunning and ruthlessness to become a dictator. Best thing would be to take a map and draw a red circle around the entire middle east. Make it clear that nothing leaves this area and anything that goes in does not leave.
Reaper45 is offline  
post #23 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-17-15, 05:52 AM
Feed
 
Serpion5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Space
Posts: 10,974
Reputation: 51
Default

World War 2 had extensive bombing of civilian populations and unless history is wrong, it ended with two cities being completely leveled by weapons of an unseen scale at that time. We can debate all we want over whether it was the right thing to do, but the fact remains that the war ended after it happened.

Sometime between then and now, we seem to have decided that we somehow need to be better than our enemies. That we need to win while staying above their level. I wonder, what does moral superiority get us if we are not actually winning? What does it get us when they simply don't care and will stoop to any level?


Nonsense is our Salvation

Serpion5 is offline  
post #24 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-17-15, 08:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Deus Mortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In a cell for revealing sensitive information regarding the Inquisition
Posts: 2,071
Reputation: 37
Default

Please tell me you aren't using Hiroshima and Nagasaki as your reason why we should just bomb the Middle East. The war was basically already over and there's good evidence to suggest Japan would have surrendered without being nuked. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were one of the most devastating acts of terrorism ever perpetrated and that's what they were; terrorist attacks. They served no political or greater war purpose. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilian population centres not military strongholds. The only reason those bombs were dropped was to scare the shit out of the Russians, which is the exact same objective of any terrorist attack (albeit not always directed at Russian).

While we're on history, you cannot justify bombing because "Oh, well it worked before. Surely it'll work again". You know what else had lots of bombings, including chemical airstrikes? Vietnam. You know how that ended? Shit. You what also had lots of shelling, for like weeks? The Somme. You know how that ended? Shit.

This is not about some moral superiority. For one, again from history, if the two world wars taught us anything it's that when you subject a country to poverty and openly exploit it, you create and atmosphere that promotes extremism not quells it. And if we are committing the same atrocities as those we fight against then they have already won, because then it's just a battle over who gets to be the face of the oppression rather than against oppression.

You cannot get away from the fact that you are arguing for the massacre of millions of people in retaliation for a few hundred. Millions of people, most of whom are oppressed and have no wish to be part of this war. You think we should murder them all for what? Because we can't be bothered to work out a more long term alternative?

Besides, leveling Syria would be additional madness because you'd really piss of Russia by killing a bunch of her troops. And that is a war we definitely don't want.

My contribution to the Renegades saga. Check it out

My growing IIIrd legion stuff:

17th Millenial (Homebrew Fluff) - "Children of the Emperor, death to his foes!" (Project Log)

Also my 30k tacticas, for those of you interested:

Crusade Army List tactica - Individual Legion tactica

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
And for two fucking grand, I could buy enough rum and hookers to 'artistically' recreate the better part of Pirates of the Caribbean.
Deus Mortis is offline  
post #25 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-17-15, 09:15 AM
Closet Dictator
 
Old Man78's Avatar
Old Man78's Flag is: Ireland
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sector 7 G
Posts: 3,351
Reputation: 34
Default

I do not think Serp is advocating nuking Syria but making the point that, in order to end a horrible war people did a horrible thing. No matter how you cut the cloth these fanatics cannot be stopped with any sort of diplomacy, this is not a battle of weapons but a battle of wills, do you allow a regime like Isis to exist or not?

I served in the British Army, I was in Iraq and Afghanistan, I fundamentally think the taking of human life is wrong, but unfortunately I also believe that it is sometimes necessary, forget all the religious tags attached to these creatures, they are Nazis, have the same logic as Nazis, they just hapoen to be in the middle east this time.

I'm going to step out of this debate now, I have my view on how to deal with it and do not think I could be swayed from it, based on my past experience and the state of the world I see around me. To be honest I'm suprized this thread has not been MOD stomped already. I hope you all find peace in your part of the world, I'll be prepped for battle best I can to make sure I have peace in mine!

Old Man78 is offline  
post #26 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-17-15, 09:42 AM
Feed
 
Serpion5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Space
Posts: 10,974
Reputation: 51
Default

I didn't advocate a damn thing. I observed that what we're doing now isn't a permanent solution. And I wondered if it was the right course.


Nonsense is our Salvation

Serpion5 is offline  
post #27 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-17-15, 10:39 AM
Senior Member
 
Deus Mortis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: In a cell for revealing sensitive information regarding the Inquisition
Posts: 2,071
Reputation: 37
Default

Alright, having read back your reply, I can see how you meant that. When I read it, it sounded in my head like you were advocating it as THE solution rather than A solution that might not actually be the best one. My bad.

Perhaps to add clarity to some of my own responses, I agree that fighting in instances like this is necessary. As you say Oldman, there isn't an option of diplomacy here and they will keep killing people unless we protect ourselves. I just have an issue with the fact that that is so often where to conversation ends and, just like the war in Iraq, we send troops and bombs believe that will solve everything and then the cycle plays itself out all over again, as with ISIS. At some point the conversation has to move beyond fighting.

My contribution to the Renegades saga. Check it out

My growing IIIrd legion stuff:

17th Millenial (Homebrew Fluff) - "Children of the Emperor, death to his foes!" (Project Log)

Also my 30k tacticas, for those of you interested:

Crusade Army List tactica - Individual Legion tactica

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
And for two fucking grand, I could buy enough rum and hookers to 'artistically' recreate the better part of Pirates of the Caribbean.
Deus Mortis is offline  
post #28 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-17-15, 10:44 AM
Thordis
 
Haskanael's Avatar
Haskanael's Flag is: Netherlands
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,438
Reputation: 20
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
. As you say Oldman, there isn't an option of diplomacy here and they will keep killing people unless we protect ourselves. I just have an issue with the fact that that is so often where to conversation ends and, just like the war in Iraq, we send troops and bombs believe that will solve everything and then the cycle plays itself out all over again, as with ISIS. At some point the conversation has to move beyond fighting.
now this. I can get behind.
Haskanael is offline  
post #29 of 29 (permalink) Old 11-17-15, 05:17 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,685
Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpion5 View Post
I didn't advocate a damn thing. I observed that what we're doing now isn't a permanent solution. And I wondered if it was the right course.
Nuking the middle east isn't the right course, it's probably going to make the problem worse. But they're fairly limited on a few things over there maybe it's time to deny that to them as well.
Reaper45 is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > HO Off Topic > Off Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome