McDonald's reveals self-checkout kiosks - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-21-15, 02:33 PM
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Well of course. You make people pay to earn qualifications that are needed rather than have them freely available to learn, then they spend so long in their industry (if they're lucky enough to even get in) paying off the debt on their education to get the job.

We will always need engineers, able bodied construction workers and medical professionals. It seems pretty stupid that we charge people to learn these essential skills. I should probably also point out that most corporations employing these individuals could rather easily afford to pay their workers more. Even a few dollars per hour is going to make a lot of difference.

But, given that boardrooms full of half brained executives are running the show over there, it's easy to understand why the American economy is little more than the polished turd that it is. Land of Opportunity right?
It's actually not the executives fault this time.

Normally you go to Mcdonalds when you're 16 and get a job, Or you're retired and have a pension coming in but you want to do something to fill in the days. then you'll work weekends and after school. Then once you graduate they assume you're going to go to college, or trade school or get another job.

It's assumed that the point of the job was to pad out a Resume. Started at 16 worked there for two years.

Has experience in customer service, multitasking problem solving and so forth.

But since people are lazy and don't want to do anything hard that doesn't happen, and they stay there for years afterwards. Not even trying to find a job.
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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-21-15, 04:36 PM
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I like the little kiosk things because that way I usually know what I want and can order it right away while the idiot that can't make up their mind can stand there and stare at the screen for 20 minutes.

As someone that works in the restaurant industry I can tell you that you can work 40+ hours and not earn enough to live on. There are also very few teenagers that are working in fast food. Most are struggling adults taht have to work two jobs. Even if they did pay $15 hour the companies will just cut worker shifts and days they work so they will still have to work two jobs just to make the same crappy money they are making now.
I work in a fine dining restaurant and don't make $15 so I hope this goes through. I am not greedy I am just trying to support me and my three kids just like everyone else.


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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-21-15, 05:58 PM
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As someone that works in the restaurant industry I can tell you that you can work 40+ hours and not earn enough to live on. There are also very few teenagers that are working in fast food. Most are struggling adults taht have to work two jobs. Even if they did pay $15 hour the companies will just cut worker shifts and days they work
You mean until the knock on effect kicks in and more and more people are able to eat out?

I can't be arsed cooking. I enjoy it. Once a week, maybe, when I can put the effort in, but rather thinking "fuck it" and making spaghetti hoops or beans on toast, to create the least possible mess, I'd rather go out and enjoy a nice people, in decent company, speak to the staff for something different.

What I'm on at the minute is more than a decent wage, but I couldn't afford to do that. If I was able to, I would be. I'm sure many other people would be. All these people are now coming out to eat; if you can't afford to staff a restaurant at those times after the amount of potential money coming in, then you won't receive that money as people will go where they can get served quicker and properly.

In the UK, the Living Wage is 7.85 in 2014-2015, which in October is likely to go up to around 8.05+ this year. We'll call it 8 for ease. Now, you don't get taxed on your first 10600, so that means that on a 25 hour week, you won't be taxed, but can earn 200 a week without being taxed. Anything over that has the extra taxed at 20%. That is a 3 Nights work a week; Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

Compare that same amount of work for the National Minimum Wage at 6.50; 162.50, 8450, or according to this; http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/uk-poverty-line, for a single parent with a child under 14, considered the Poverty Line. From that, you've got to find Food (~60 a week) Accomodation (~100 a weak), Travel (~20 for a weekly pass), Childcare (~120 for those 3 nights you're working)...

So, for people who are working in that way, you've got all that money going out on absolute minimum requirement purposes, so that there is no profit being made on items of higher value items. People aren't eating out at a restaurant to pay 50 for a bottle of wine, 2 meals, cinema, and a taxi back, they're going home, and eating a tin of beans and toast, not because they're lazy, but because that's what they can afford. Your food prices? You can afford to put them up slightly; because you'll need to cover the increase costs that have come from supply/demand mechanics, but also because you can afford to because people will buy them. Someone who has 5 to spend is unlikely to spend 4.50 on something, but someone who has 10 to spend is more likely to 5 for the same thing.

This means that as a company continues to employ more and more people going at this lower rate of pay, more and more money is being taken out of the overall economy and circulation, and instead going in to line the pockets and profit/loss of corporations and their big wigs. I'm not against Capitalism, I believe in getting rewarded for the work you put in, and being able to reap those benefits, but I also believe that it cannot operate without a corporate responsibility, and that involves playing a long game. I can't sell my houses for Millions and Millions of pounds, because they're not worth that, and no-one would buy them.

In return, we get quantitive easing, which is basically printing money, and devaluing the pound. As that is slowly levelling out, and the pound becomes stronger again, we are seeing the upside of people being forced to borrow money; higher inflation rates were good in some instance, because it effectively shrunk the effect on debts; the debt was static; 10,000 was 10,000, but being paid 10/hour instead of 8 and hour because of inflation effectively reduced the cost of the debt by 25% comparatively (and overly simplistically).

It's hard to explain; we're after all talking on a forum where the main point of interest is an extremely over costed luxury good that regardless of complaints of it being too expensive, for the most point we can afford, and are not counted as being on the poverty line. But that said, get paid more means more money to spend, more money to spend means more demand, means more jobs for people, means more money going into the economy, and around and around we go.

The cost? A comparatively short term cost to private business owners and inevitably the government who are going to have to food that bill in a form of compensation. There won't be a need for increased Tax, because the increase in monetary value from VAT transactions will pay for itself.



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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-21-15, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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I can't believe I read all that.
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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-23-15, 07:40 PM
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The machine that replaces a $15 job is only tech evolution from replacing the $7.50 job. Lowering your wage to compete against machines is madness.

Wealth is created when we use new knowledge to create new things or improve efficiencies.
This technology, along with people pondering applications using type three levers is literally a new mechanical revolution in waiting. There are going to be many patents, from people who're curious and can tinker.

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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-15, 01:37 AM
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@Vaz I can't rep you for that because I need to spread it around, but that was very well said.

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The machine that replaces a $15 job is only tech evolution from replacing the $7.50 job. Lowering your wage to compete against machines is madness.
Agreed.

Fast food workers are only one group which want to raise the minimum wage, plenty of others would like to make the minimum wage a living wage (again) if in fact it ever was.

Yes some people would lose jobs or hours because of the increase, but the effect over time should be "a rising tide lifts all boats."
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The machine that replaces a $15 job is only tech evolution from replacing the $7.50 job. Lowering your wage to compete against machines is madness.
And from my experience people in poverty are much more frequently in a position like @morfangdakka or who have been laboring away without respite and few opportunities.

The nature of work remains that skilled positions are drastically out numbered by unskilled ones. Even if everyone wanted to be surgeons, there aren't enough surgery jobs and besides who would be a janitor?

The problem here comes in as technology obviates jobs. Do we need a cashier at McDonald's? With a limited menu and incredibly electronic payments, probably not.

This returns us to the real deficit, jobs training. The difficulty is accurately projecting what jobs will be needed and what skills those works will need. Recently I saw a presentation on the changing landscape of technology in skilled jobs and much of didn't exist in the same form just a few years ago. And many of the jobs in highest demand didn't exist only 5 or 10 years ago.

So where did that leave us? In a position where many people are underserved by their secondary and postsecondary schools and yet remain stuck because the job they can get with their skills requires long hours at to low a wage.

(We can discuss the devaluation of the bachelor's degree in the United States another time.)

In my opinion that leaves us at an unsatisfactory social safety net and inadequate opportunities for affordable schooling. High quality online education (something I know a thing or two about) can do an awful lot to alleviate the educational gaps, or at least provide affordable opportunities for education. The social safety net is really inadequate for either major emergencies or workforce redeployment. Which in the USA is also compounded by really shortsighted real estate restrictions of the past (read: racism) and a woeful underfunding of or public school system which is now coming home to roost.

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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-15, 06:24 PM
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So has anybody else noticed the spotty, greasy urchins have been replaced with really quite stunning young ladies?

No? Just my local McDoom then?


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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-15, 06:29 PM
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So has anybody else noticed the spotty, greasy urchins have been replaced with really quite stunning young ladies?

No? Just my local McDoom then?
in the Netherlands they always put the pretty girls behind the cash register and the grease monkeys at the food stations.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-15, 06:57 PM
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in the Netherlands they always put the pretty girls behind the cash register and the grease monkeys at the food stations.
Get the spare room ready, here I come!


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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 06-24-15, 07:07 PM
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Get the spare room ready, here I come!
I'll warn them
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