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post #71 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-17-14, 06:19 PM
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They actually found an original copy of the bible at the foot of mount Sinai, with this extra page at the front.

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All characters in this publication are entirely fictitious and any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.


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I think Tawa is a temporal entity that exists outside of the hobby/modeling timeline. Essentially, he's the Heresy Online equivalent of a Time Lord... which is kinda hilarious and frightening all at the same time.
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post #72 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-17-14, 06:39 PM
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So Newton and Einstein work in science was regressed? Even Stephen Hawkings have never rejected the belief that there may be a God.





Acctualy carbon and oxygen is created by Fusion within stars. And matter is only one state of enegy. Science have proven that a total vaccun is most likely impossible cause there is always energy left that can form matter in the state of particles which can in turn create atoms.
So where would the energy from vacuum come from?

The point I'm trying to make is that eventually we're going to reach a point where x came from nothing.
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post #73 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-17-14, 06:48 PM
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Why would it have to come from anything? What is wrong with it just existing? Where did god come from? From nothing? Was he created by the Elder Beings? Were did they come from? Human imagination perhaps?

Besides, even if something came from nothing, the more I think about it, the more 'nothing' becomes an infathomable concept. How could something come from nothing? How could it not?

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post #74 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-17-14, 07:10 PM
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Why would it have to come from anything? What is wrong with it just existing? Where did god come from? From nothing? Was he created by the Elder Beings? Were did they come from? Human imagination perhaps?

Besides, even if something came from nothing, the more I think about it, the more 'nothing' becomes an infathomable concept. How could something come from nothing? How could it not?
Well why would it just exist? What would be the point?
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post #75 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-17-14, 07:22 PM
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Why wouldn't it? There's no why. What if it is just an intrinsic property of vacuum? What point are you looking for? You are the one having a problem with it.
I just think "Apparently energy is an intrinsic property of vacuum" is an easier explanation than "God did it".
In the long run, at least.

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post #76 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-17-14, 07:40 PM
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Hey Reaper! I can't be bothered to read 8 pages, but I read the first and last, so as a Catholic turned Protestant turned Buddhist turned Agnostic turned Atheist I'll try to answer your questions.

First of all, "nothing" as we tend to understand it is a nonsensical concept; as pointed out previously, even vacuums have low levels of energy, and there have been studies showing that matter could form from these low-level energy vacuums. Really, if such a thing as nothing exists (which seems rather self-contradictory), we have no idea if something could come from it. Regardless, we can't say for sure that everything just popped into being as many like to believe.

Next, we don't know that our universe ever began to exist, but rather than it began to exist in it's present form. We have no idea what there was (if anything) before the big bang (or even if the big bang happened). It's entirely possible that energy has always existed, or at least that it has existed as long as time has; we're not even sure if time existed before the big bang (though exist is a pretty terrible word for it).

If by "it" in your last post you mean energy, I have no idea "why." I don't even know that it did "just exist," I just know that no one else does either. Oddly enough, there doesn't have to be a "point," just as there is no "point" to a hurricane or an earthquake; there are reasons that they occur, but there is no overarching moral or political "point" to them. I hold firm in my belief that, just as we have come to understand movement, bodies, chemicals, even atoms, we as a species will one day understand the origins of energy as we understand the origins of life and of matter, if not even more so. Of course I don't know this, but I suppose I do have a bit of faith myself

Cheers mate, I hope I answered your questions decently.

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post #77 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-17-14, 07:48 PM
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Hey Reaper! I can't be bothered to read 8 pages, but I read the first and last, so as a Catholic turned Protestant turned Buddhist turned Agnostic turned Atheist I'll try to answer your questions.

First of all, "nothing" as we tend to understand it is a nonsensical concept; as pointed out previously, even vacuums have low levels of energy, and there have been studies showing that matter could form from these low-level energy vacuums. Really, if such a thing as nothing exists (which seems rather self-contradictory), we have no idea if something could come from it. Regardless, we can't say for sure that everything just popped into being as many like to believe.

Next, we don't know that our universe ever began to exist, but rather than it began to exist in it's present form. We have no idea what there was (if anything) before the big bang (or even if the big bang happened). It's entirely possible that energy has always existed, or at least that it has existed as long as time has; we're not even sure if time existed before the big bang (though exist is a pretty terrible word for it).

If by "it" in your last post you mean energy, I have no idea "why." I don't even know that it did "just exist," I just know that no one else does either. Oddly enough, there doesn't have to be a "point," just as there is no "point" to a hurricane or an earthquake; there are reasons that they occur, but there is no overarching moral or political "point" to them. I hold firm in my belief that, just as we have come to understand movement, bodies, chemicals, even atoms, we as a species will one day understand the origins of energy as we understand the origins of life and of matter, if not even more so. Of course I don't know this, but I suppose I do have a bit of faith myself

Cheers mate, I hope I answered your questions decently.
Decently enough till we find out the truth. But until then I really don't know what to believe.
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post #78 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-17-14, 07:53 PM
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Cheers mate, I hope I answered your questions decently.
Yes, my answers have been quite indecent. At least I tried to remain civil.

No, thank you, you explain my points eloquently. This is what I tried to convey.
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post #79 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-17-14, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Moriouce
So Newton and Einstein work in science was regressed? Even Stephen Hawkings have never rejected the belief that there may be a God.
A round of applause for reading ability. No seriously. You've outdone yourself.

Newton had his theories decried by the orthodox church. He changed his beliefs to suit his opinion on the world derived from his studies. The world was morphic in his eyes, and the concept of an organised religion was completely against his beliefs at the edge of his life and was deemed heretical by the church.

I've not read as much about Einstein, but the christian religion as practised from its outset pretty much slowed the world until the grip of the church was reduced over the passage of years. There was a reason the church actively hunted down people like Francis Bacon

And if you mean Steven Hawking, wasn't his quote more to do with 'I can't prove otherwise'.



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post #80 of 130 (permalink) Old 08-17-14, 08:21 PM
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Saying we cannot disprove something, therefore it exists is the most ridiculous and weak argument theists have ever made. Lack of evidence for an opposing viewpoint is not automatic proof of another.

Ultimately, some people will continually poke holes in our current, incomplete I might add, understanding of things because it allows them to continue believing the fairy tales they grew up with, in whatever form they choose to interpret.

I'm sure if any of them did some real research on the more intricate findings of modern astrophysics and astronomy without pre-formed opinions on the matter, they would be far less trusting of old myths. As I said, the concept of an all powerful god to fill the gaps is not necessary, and furthermore the very concept of all powerful is self defeating. Eventually, there HAS to be limits.


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