ISIS Gone Mad?? "We Shall Destroy Mecca!" - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
Off Topic Totally off-topic chat in here.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-14, 01:09 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
emporershand89's Avatar
emporershand89's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New England.....somewhere in that mess of awesomness!!
Posts: 2,270
Reputation: 8
Default

I find it even more funny that they have gain such power. These guys supposedly have massacred christians in old fashion "Kneel and Execute" fashion, blown up some of the holiest sites in Iraq for Islam, have declared their own "sect" of Islam, and have made enemies of even the most staunch defender of the faith; Iran!

I mean really, what are we waiting for? Lets join the Saudi's and Nuke the bastards!!



"Walk Softely, and Carry a Big Gun!"
emporershand89 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-14, 11:53 AM
Slave to Heresy!
Jezlad's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Essex
Posts: 8,803
Reputation: 26
Default

IS were quite clearly bankrolled and funded by the west to fuck up the middle east.
Jezlad is offline  
post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-14, 12:59 PM
Thordis
 
Haskanael's Avatar
Haskanael's Flag is: Netherlands
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 2,438
Reputation: 20
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jezlad View Post
IS were quite clearly bankrolled and funded by the west to fuck up the middle east.
this is kind of starting to remind me of the Iron man 1 plot western corporations/governments double dealing under the table, messing up the middle east.
Haskanael is offline  
post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-14, 02:15 PM
Heresy Online's Pet Furby
 
Tawa's Avatar
Tawa's Flag is: Scotland
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 8,723
Reputation: 94
Default

Take off and nuke the site from orbit?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jace of Ultramar View Post
I think Tawa is a temporal entity that exists outside of the hobby/modeling timeline. Essentially, he's the Heresy Online equivalent of a Time Lord... which is kinda hilarious and frightening all at the same time.
"God-Emperor? Calling him a god was how all this mess started."
Tawa is offline  
post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-14, 05:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Brother Cato's Avatar
Brother Cato's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 348
Reputation: 5
Default

As someone whose studied a little bit of the Quar'an years and years back, these guys are actually acting against their own faith. They're not fighting a foreign power that's gone and taken land that was theirs or anything - as others have previously said, this group just seems to be there to stir up trouble and desire little more than power.

Modelling Projects
Brother Cato is offline  
post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-14, 06:06 PM
Slave to Heresy!
Jezlad's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Essex
Posts: 8,803
Reputation: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Cato View Post
As someone whose studied a little bit of the Quar'an years and years back, these guys are actually acting against their own faith. They're not fighting a foreign power that's gone and taken land that was theirs or anything - as others have previously said, this group just seems to be there to stir up trouble and desire little more than power.
They're bankrolled by the West, its obvious. Give them weapons and arms to destabilize Syria then go on a rampage.
Jezlad is offline  
post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-09-14, 07:15 AM
Craw-Daddy
 
ckcrawford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,416
Reputation: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jezlad View Post
They're bankrolled by the West, its obvious. Give them weapons and arms to destabilize Syria then go on a rampage.
Kind of. I heard most of their weapons were from the Iraq military that simply ran away and abandoned their gear. This is actually pretty vexing. The obvious answer was that they were cowards, but I really question how the Iraqi government didn't know how useless their military was with all those sources. They really picked recruits from the wrong populations. I heard from some of my comrades who were stationed in Iraq that they would sell their CLP and even parts of their weapons for money out in the markets.
ckcrawford is offline  
post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-11-14, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
emporershand89's Avatar
emporershand89's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New England.....somewhere in that mess of awesomness!!
Posts: 2,270
Reputation: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Cato View Post
these guys are actually acting against their own faith.
Really? I respect your studies of the Qur'an, and it's supplementals, but I must urge you to reconsider. Taking into perspective the "Noble" Qur'an, and what it says in it's pages of Holy Scripture. As below......

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Anyone not a follower of Islam, any Non-Beleivers(Fitnah)....dead! Kill until only Islam remains!

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

Basically seperates people into three groups. Hypocrites, "Diseased hearts," and Agitators (Alarmists). Basically you fall under these catagories if you are not a "True follower of allah." AKA....your Dead!

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

God says you are special if you kill in my name. So please go ahead and slaughter as many as you can find, for God is on your side! I mean it's directly from the Hadith, when Muhammad sought to make his people Raiders and kill merchant caravans.

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Again, fight until all "Disbelief" is destroyed!

Again these are all passages from the Qur'an I have at home; which is the popular "Americanized" verzion that is sold in Mosque's throughout the country. I really cannot agree nor allow your words to go unchallenged when the Scripture from this Faith is so blatent on violence. It is hard for me to view this as "The Reglion of Peace," when a good portion of the book is dedicated (and graphically so) towards killing non-beleivers. Additionally it's hard to read when the Religion demands such strict rules that are punished with torture, mutilation, and often Death for the slightest infraction.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jezlad View Post
IS were quite clearly bankrolled and funded by the west to fuck up the middle east.
Jezlad you seem really convinced that they are bankrolled by the West. Did you ever stop to think that perhapsd after centuries of various wars they have all the supplies, armor, armament, money, and structrue right in their own back yard. I really don't see ISIS having been supported by the West, much less the U.S as rumors have suggested. If anything I feel they are bankrolled by Iran and the Saudi's from behind the scenes.

Just look at their supporters.....I mean holy crap they seem hell bent on pissing off their own people.



"Walk Softely, and Carry a Big Gun!"
emporershand89 is offline  
post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-11-14, 02:54 AM
Senior Member
 
The_Werewolf_Arngeirr's Avatar
The_Werewolf_Arngeirr's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: T.Dot
Posts: 602
Reputation: 5
Default

I need to say this before i get on topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by emporershand89 View Post
Really? I respect your studies of the Qur'an, and it's supplementals, but I must urge you to reconsider. Taking into perspective the "Noble" Qur'an, and what it says in it's pages of Holy Scripture. As below......

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Anyone not a follower of Islam, any Non-Beleivers(Fitnah)....dead! Kill until only Islam remains!

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

Basically seperates people into three groups. Hypocrites, "Diseased hearts," and Agitators (Alarmists). Basically you fall under these catagories if you are not a "True follower of allah." AKA....your Dead!

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

God says you are special if you kill in my name. So please go ahead and slaughter as many as you can find, for God is on your side! I mean it's directly from the Hadith, when Muhammad sought to make his people Raiders and kill merchant caravans.

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Again, fight until all "Disbelief" is destroyed!

Again these are all passages from the Qur'an I have at home; which is the popular "Americanized" verzion that is sold in Mosque's throughout the country. I really cannot agree nor allow your words to go unchallenged when the Scripture from this Faith is so blatent on violence. It is hard for me to view this as "The Reglion of Peace," when a good portion of the book is dedicated (and graphically so) towards killing non-beleivers. Additionally it's hard to read when the Religion demands such strict rules that are punished with torture, mutilation, and often Death for the slightest infraction.

all the abhramic god bibles are similar, threats of damnation and death for those who dont follow. and yet these are the dominant religions that exist?

then you take religions, like my own (currently referred to as asatru, i doubt there was an official name in the past) without a single peep or threat of violence towards non believers, and even having statements of being good to your neighbors, not turning away strangers at your door, being good to your family and your people, etc. the only reason we got wiped out was due to christians forcing full on Drownings in "baptism" for those that refused to convert. and all the "viking" sterotypes we have now (even the idea of them raping and pillaging everyone) are vastly blown out of preportion by christian schollars over 100 years AFTER vikings dissipeared from the face of this planet.

On topic:

I dont like many people who willingly follow the abhramic god, because all its about is death of those who dont follow, and has caused too much death. honestly, put up a giant wall around it all, let them all kill eachother behind that wall. anyone who wants out has to renounce those faiths, as it really feels like they all just come here to canada and the US just to bitch and complain and continue to cause their shit here. send them ALL back.

Last edited by The_Werewolf_Arngeirr; 08-11-14 at 02:57 AM.
The_Werewolf_Arngeirr is offline  
post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-11-14, 03:28 AM
Senior Member
 
Brother Cato's Avatar
Brother Cato's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 348
Reputation: 5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by emporershand89 View Post
Really? I respect your studies of the Qur'an, and it's supplementals, but I must urge you to reconsider. Taking into perspective the "Noble" Qur'an, and what it says in it's pages of Holy Scripture. As below......

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah [disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah] and worship is for Allah alone. But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)"

Anyone not a follower of Islam, any Non-Beleivers(Fitnah)....dead! Kill until only Islam remains!

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

Basically seperates people into three groups. Hypocrites, "Diseased hearts," and Agitators (Alarmists). Basically you fall under these catagories if you are not a "True follower of allah." AKA....your Dead!

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

God says you are special if you kill in my name. So please go ahead and slaughter as many as you can find, for God is on your side! I mean it's directly from the Hadith, when Muhammad sought to make his people Raiders and kill merchant caravans.

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Again, fight until all "Disbelief" is destroyed!
Again, it's been YEARS. I've not actually read the book since Religious Education classes way back when. However, I still remember a lot about the Quar'an's little section on the rules of war - some of which I can still recall, such as the fact that a Jihad can only be used defensively, nobody is allowed to kill people non-combatants, and (yes really) leaving cultivated and residential areas intact etc, etc. It's basically a proto-Geneva Convention.

That's not to say everyone follows these to the letter - on the contrary, groups such as Al-Quieda might actually be finding themselves ending up in the Muslim equivalent of Hell (and I hope it is so) for breaking the rules. These are the people who read the stuff you quoted above and misconclude that "It's perfectly okay to kill the guys NOT on our home soil and NOT trying to kill us!". So it wouldn't surprise me if the guys who committed 9/11 for example or the London Bombings in 2005 ended up with something more like this.

Oh, and that little thing about the 40 Virgins for the Suicide Bombings? Well as it turns out, these are a violation of classic Islamic lore as well. Infact the first Suicide Bombing in this context was in 1980 if I recall correctly, meaning this aspect is fairly modern. In fact just for more context:

Quote:
"The Prophet said, '...whoever commits suicide with a piece of iron will be punished with the same piece of iron in the Hell Fire,"
I would even go so far as to cite this which I came across while researching my post:

Quote:
The 9/11 attack on the US has led many non-Muslims to indict Islam as a violent religion. According to Corrigan and Hudson, "some conservative Christian leaders (have) complained that Islam (is) incompatible with what they believed to be a Christian America." Examples of Christian leaders who have expressed such sentiments include Franklin Graham and Pat Robertson. According to a survey conducted by a research group affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention, two out of three Protestant pastors believe Islam is a "dangerous" religion.
And also:

Quote:
The basic principle in fighting in the Quran is that other communities should be treated as one's own. Fighting is justified for legitimate self-defense, to aid other Muslims and after a violation in the terms of a treaty, but should be stopped if these circumstances cease to exist. The principle of forgiveness is reiterated in between the assertions of the right to self-defence.
And for some extra added combo:

Quote:
Stop, O people, that I may give you ten rules for your guidance in the battlefield. Do not commit treachery or deviate from the right path. You must not mutilate dead bodies. Neither kill a child, nor a woman, nor an aged man. Bring no harm to the trees, nor burn them with fire, especially those which are fruitful. Slay not any of the enemy's flock, save for your food. You are likely to pass by people who have devoted their lives to monastic services; leave them alone.
The last quote is from a guy named Abu Bakr, one of Mohammed's companions. That said (and as I've repeatedly stated), there is little to stop groups from breaking these laws as much as you can get some random Warlord to follow the Geneva Convention for example. It doesn't help that (as I found out looking though this) a fair few verses are ambiguous.

Quote:
Beginning with the 7th-century AD Arab era of Muslim conquests, and continuing on until the 21st-century resurgence of Muslim violence on non-Muslims in the name of "Jihad",many have debated whether Islam was fundamentally a religion of peace, of violence, or perhaps of some combination of the two. Within the Quran itself, there appears to be some ambiguity regarding the infliction of injury upon non-combatants. In the Quran's "No-Compulsion verse" it is suggested that "there shall be no compulsion in religion". However, this verse was abrogated, as later in the Quran's "Sword verses", Muslims were advised to "...Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the last day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and his messenger (Muhammad) have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth (Islam)." Hence, the misinterpretation of the topic is famous among all parties.

Modelling Projects
Brother Cato is offline  
Closed Thread

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > HO Off Topic > Off Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome