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post #61 of 71 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 07:59 AM
nice boy, daft though !
 
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
The only reason why we're having this conversation is because he set up recording devices. Otherwise it would be a story about a guy who though two criminals were armed.
im not exactly sure what your point is, also not true, the forensic evidence would also show he waited 24 hours to have his neighbor call the police and that they were shot multiple time possibly at close range and that he moved the bodies, these are not the typical actions of someone whos defending there home, plus then there would be the evidence gathered from the police interview, the recording was really just the icing on the cake for the prosecution, questions would be raised like why he didnt call 911 straight away, why was he waiting in the basement,why had he moved his truck so it looked like he wasnt in,why didnt he call an ambulance and the police after shooting the boy? also thinking someone is armed isnot the same as being armed, if no weapon was found with the boy or girl he would still have to justify his actions.
He was a nutter and he should never see daylight again.



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post #62 of 71 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 02:41 PM
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It's entrapment, at the very least. Going along with a situation to catch someone within. The police in the UK do a very similar thing with capture houses, something I've questioned whether it's entrapment or not.

Only this time, instead of custodial sentencing, the man was literally judge, jury and executioner. "Recording devices"; it's fucking CCTV, for the purposes of sending to police to aid in the identification of perpertrators. Nothing more, nothing less. You believe otherwise, you're believing a lawyer who is out to defend a client; and lawyers will attempt to throw enough shit at the wall that enough of it will stick. "Recording devices" my fat fucking arse. CCTV however is also used as a deterrent - not only are you able to identify people because of their face, but from their clothing, stance, build, even MO if you have enough information on them. Hence CCTV should be highly visible, especially in civilian areas. If it's hidden, then it's the same sort of thing with a concealed carry - why the fuck do you need a concealed carry weapon?

Eh, moving on.

The guy worked for security, and can't secure his house properly against breaking and entering. 1) What the fuck was the guy doing in an unsecure neighbourhood, location is everything in security, otherwise you can only make the best of a bad job, in otherwords bolting the gate after the horse has gone 2) how the fuck were they breaking in? If it was the same way each and every time, then identify that risk, and remove it. Installing secured windows and multiple glazed windows will help prevent someone entering. Clearwater indent oils/sprays will enable police doing spot checks on known black markets to search for stolen kit, as stated visible detractions - such as trained guard dogs (seriously, go to an old police/military dog kennels, you can usually get a 6 year old German shepherd for quite cheap. You can in the UK, and you can in Aus.

This guy sounds at best incompetent at security (unless his security is along the lines of Paul fucking Blart), at worse, a murdering bastard.

And yes, I will use this opportunity as a gun user, to mount my fucking soapbox, and say "Get rid of the second amendment"; it won't, but there's absolutely no need for the second amendment whatsoever. Sure, if Galahad's still around, he can probably provide anecdotal evidence of the one time his pistol was happy to see his garage-robbing robber, but that aside, the evidence against the second amendment is overwhelming. But I'll save that for another thread.



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post #63 of 71 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 05:29 PM
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I'm not going to argue with most of your post, Vaz, but I do disagree with one point and somewhat disagree on a second.

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It's entrapment, at the very least. Going along with a situation to catch someone within. The police in the UK do a very similar thing with capture houses, something I've questioned whether it's entrapment or not.
Neither are technically entrapment. They would need to actively induce the individual to commit a crime they would otherwise be unlikely to commit. Making it seem like you aren't home wouldn't be considered entrapment…. that being said I'm not sure how sitting behind your basement window or whatever with a firearm with the express intent to kill whoever does come through it and then later executing a kid would factor into that.

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And yes, I will use this opportunity as a gun user, to mount my fucking soapbox, and say "Get rid of the second amendment"; it won't, but there's absolutely no need for the second amendment whatsoever. Sure, if Galahad's still around, he can probably provide anecdotal evidence of the one time his pistol was happy to see his garage-robbing robber, but that aside, the evidence against the second amendment is overwhelming. But I'll save that for another thread.
There are a few issues with this when it comes to the US. One of them is the fucking stupid amount of weapons sitting around the US. Weapon proliferation is a huge issue and actually getting all of the weapons would be difficult, even without more coming in.

As to more coming in, the southern boarder is shit. That being said, I don't know if its so shit that weapons crossing would be an issue, so I suppose I can't really make that argument.

Really though, the biggest issue in the US with getting rid of the second amendment is that, for one thing, you can't, and for another actually removing a right is damn near impossible. The only way that we could remove guns from the population would be for them to make another amendment that would add some clarification or something to the second amendment. We basically have to release a constitutional errata.

At least that's how I think that it works.

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post #64 of 71 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 08:46 PM
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Learn something new every day - I thought entrapment was simply creating a "trap" so to speak - an opportunity for a crime to be committed. Not that you had to induce someone to undertake a course of action that they otherwise wouldn't - i.e. persuade them to do it.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #65 of 71 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 09:41 PM
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And yes, I will use this opportunity as a gun user, to mount my fucking soapbox, and say "Get rid of the second amendment"; it won't, but there's absolutely no need for the second amendment whatsoever. Sure, if Galahad's still around, he can probably provide anecdotal evidence of the one time his pistol was happy to see his garage-robbing robber, but that aside, the evidence against the second amendment is overwhelming. But I'll save that for another thread.
One day a female in your life is going to be raped, when that happens remember to tell her a gun wouldn't have done her any good. I'm sure she'll appreciate it.
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post #66 of 71 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 09:44 PM
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But that is exactly what he did: put his house in a more vulnerable position to encourage said burglary with the intent to catch someone in the house.

It was HIS house, not his neighbours. That is either premeditated burglary, something that is impossible to check unless they have property of his at their abode, or likely someone taking advantage of a diliberately made accessible property.

That is entrapment. I don't care about the people shot. Fucking scrotes, good, they are dead. But at the same time another mongo has gone with the old man.

Just spoke with DS silverback from ASMDSS on facebook. He wasn't impressed when he heard that someone was having their home broken in to, and then went on to agree with the action the old man took. The mentality some have is completely wrong. Especially when big hard Drillies with combat experience are so asculated that they cannot either go through the correct channels or defend their own properties with physical force.

I wouldn't mind kicking the shit out some one who broke into my home. Possibly even use a knife or golfclub if it came to it. Don't think I could ever kill somebody with it. Spent the last 8 years of my life training to stop a culture which believes in escalation bullshit like so. Personally, of course.

Reaper; one day, someone is going to rape you with a shotgun. And you will fucking enjoy it. Cunt



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post #67 of 71 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 09:45 PM
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One day a female in your life is going to be raped, when that happens remember to tell her a gun wouldn't have done her any good. I'm sure she'll appreciate it.
Well considering most cases of rape are done by a family member of lover then it probably wouldn't do her any good. Unless she was going out with her husband or uncle and thought to bring along a loaded gun.

Don't believe me? Here are the stats form the rape victims support network.

"70% of rapes are committed by a perpetrator who knows the victims (relative, friend, neighbour, colleague, or other acquaintance)"

http://www.assaultcare.ca/index.php?...d=49&Itemid=58

Honestly in a real life settings most people won't have a gun on them during a crisis unless they have it on them 24/7 (Which in all honesty is a tad creepy in my eyes). Additionally lots of people have been injured by idiot vigilantes that thought it would be a good idea to pull a gun on a criminal. Hell in a few cases (Almost as many as those who have actually successfully defended themselves with a gun against a criminal assailant) people have shot loved ones due to mistaken identity (Most often involving them arriving at their house in the middle of the night unannounced from a social function). Now having said that I will always defend peoples right to posses fire arms, but lets face it people are generally really fucking stupid and the fewer of them parading around with loaded weapons the better.


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post #68 of 71 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 09:58 PM
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Well considering most cases of rape are done by a family member of lover then it probably wouldn't do her any good. Unless she was going out with her husband or uncle and thought to bring along a loaded gun.
That is also the reason why there's so many female self defense classes. I know of four that teach the basic's for free. Between that and knowing how to use your gun there's no reason why it should be the case.
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post #69 of 71 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 10:34 PM
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You're fucking idiot. If i was coming to mug you, lets not get into rape, I'd destroy you. You wouldn't be able to see me coming and befroe you knew it, you'd be on the floor with my knee on your throat and a knife under your armpit. A woman keeps her possessions in her bag. Man steals bag. No gun. Woman keeps it on her body, with the rare exception she can lift the bodyweight of a 180lb guy off her to get to her weapon, let alone keep her head enough to do so before he discovers it as he is taking off her clothes or punching her head in against the floor, you are taking the piss.

I know women who are raped. They have each said that they were powerless to do anything. When asked if they had something to change that would they have done so? Most say yes, but its unlikely that any power would be possible.

And womens self defence is a money grab. Kneeing a bloke in the balls is pretty instinctive.

Lets turn this around. I'm going to rape your girlfriend, (i luaghed in real life here, i actually lol'd, genuinely first time ever. As if you'd ever get girlfriend.) How does she stop it? She is armed with a pistol and knows the difference between the safety and magazine release. How does her having that gun stop me from raping her?



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post #70 of 71 (permalink) Old 05-02-14, 10:48 PM
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In general, I think public ownership of guns does far, far more harm than good. However I will cede that there are occasional specific circumstances where having a gun helps prevent a crime being carried out.

Rape is incredibly unlikely to be one such crime. As stated, the vast majority of rape takes place in the home, by someone who is known to the victim. If not committed in the home, the woman (due to fashion and womens clothing design) is likely to have any gun/weapon in her handbag. Odds of a woman being raped actually being able to freely access her handbag to get at her weapon while being assaulted? Vanishingly small. I appreciate you were trying to instil an emotional response reaper45, but it's a bad example for several reasons.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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