[NSFW] Thoughts on this highly controversial Warhammer 40,000 diorama. - Page 8 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #71 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 01:08 PM
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Reminds me of one of our brilliant Senators from the state of Missouri, Todd Akin, when discussing his anti-abortion stance:

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“It seems to me, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare,” Mr. Akin said of pregnancies from rape. “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something...
You know, LEGITIMATE rape... instead of the make-believe kind. Not only is he a genius, but he's apparently a doctor specializing in the female body.

Idiots like this will never stop being elected.


SUFFER NOT THE PONY TO LIVE.

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post #72 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Words_of_Truth View Post
Wrong and sick.
Why do you think so, if you don't mind explaining a bit?

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #73 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 05:58 PM
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For a hobby that is open to so many younger minds, I think the very prevision of the hobby in this way is simply wrong and not acceptable at all. It's not simply the act portrayed, it's the minute detail that's gone into it. We know this sort of thing goes on in the universe, I'm not doubting that and we've seen indications of it in models before but the very act in so much detail, is just to much for me, it's almost glorifying it, the whole thing is centered around it.

These are my opinions on it, I'm not saying the thing should be burnt etc I'm saying I do not agree with it.

Last edited by Words_of_Truth; 02-06-14 at 06:01 PM.
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post #74 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Words_of_Truth View Post
For a hobby that is open to so many younger minds, I think the very prevision of the hobby in this way is simply wrong and not acceptable at all.
Young children can play with pens and pencils as well, does that mean we shouldn't draw the same scene on paper? It's not as though he's displaying it on a shelf in his local store. I'm also not sure what you mean by "younger minds" - do you mean people under 15? Because that's the age our society tells us we're allowed to see naked boobies (although it's perfectly ok to have singers wearing roughly 30 square centimeters of clothing prance about on MTV grinding their crotches into other people all day long)? Is it the nudity that bothers you, or the "darkness" of the scene? If it's the "darkness" then, if the younger minds are into this hobby, then they know that "darkness" is part and parcel of 40k and WFB, as shown by some of the linked artwork from GW's own books of a guardsman having his entrails feasted on by Ripper Swarms and so on. The linked diorama is much MUCH less explicit than that.

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Originally Posted by Words_of_Truth View Post
It's not simply the act portrayed, it's the minute detail that's gone into it. We know this sort of thing goes on in the universe, I'm not doubting that and we've seen indications of it in models before but the very act in so much detail, is just to much for me, it's almost glorifying it, the whole thing is centered around it.
Glorifying? You honestly think the creator believes that Rape is 100% acceptable and should be actively encouraged? Don't you think that it's more likely (on the balance of probability) to be a warning against such behaviour, and a demonstration of how obscene such acts are? From that point of view, you may as well accuse anti-smoking adverts of glorifying tobacco, which I would hope is self-evidently ridiculous.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, or single you out for no reason, I just want to understand why people might have responded in a similar way to yourself.

90% of people think they are above average.

Statistically Improbable. Psychologically Inevitable.
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post #75 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 06:23 PM
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As I said, I see it as a perversion of the hobby, one that I am fond of and while I can get past a lot of the violent aspect of this hobby etc, this is a step to far for me. I may not be right or you may think I am closed minded, but that is the way I feel about it. He has every right to do what he wants with models but I don't agree with what he's done.
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post #76 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Words_of_Truth View Post
He has every right to do what he wants with models but I don't agree with what he's done.
Why? Do you think depictions of rape should just be buried and not seen at all? Do you think they're okay in some mediums but not others? Kids have access to comic books, television and most have the wit to tune into movies online or via television. Rape can be and is depicted in all of these mediums.

Rape is a real issue in society, and the way to fight it is through awareness. What things like this do is create awareness, they create provocative imagery that forces thought on the subject. By being forced to acknowledge the issue, we are reinforced in our views on the matter, particularly since this is usually such a graphic subject.

Now look at the diorama. And I mean take a good damn look at it. Every panel from all the angles shown. We have three guardsmen there whose intentions are obvious. They have a prisoner, they have no high opinion of her and they are fully intending to use her for their own gratification. Look at the eldar. Her armour is being removed. She is alone. She is defenseless. This is what rape is, the victim has no hope and no way to be saved. That is the horrifying reality of the situation and this piece conveys that.

For the people who think this is some sick hobbyist's fap fest material, look at the man in the tank, scroll down to the last pov image in the set. See the look on that man's face? That is doubt. The desire to stop this heinous act weighed against the fear of what will happen to him if he does. The desire to just wish the whole situation away. That man is the part of humanity that knows that this is wrong but is too damn scared to try and stop it.

That man, my friends, is YOU. That man is US.


Rape has to be acknowledged. Rape has to be stopped. No matter who the victim is.


To think otherwise is nothing but the selfish and cowardly opinion of the ignorant.


Nonsense is our Salvation

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post #77 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 09:42 AM
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Fair enough, but it's my opinion. I know about the horrors of rape, I don't need to be reminded about it via a hobby diorama. I don't need a philosophical lecture about rape in a hobby I use to get away from real life.

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post #78 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 01:00 PM
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Hmmm. I can understand where Words Of Truth is coming from. My other main escapism hobby is LRP, particularly the Lorien Trust system. It's a family game, and their rulebook explicitly states that mention of either torture or rape in plotlines or anywhere in play is expressly forbidden.
This is not because they want to repress the topics, or from some sense of societal taboo, but because young children play and having them exposed to that kind of imagery can be quite traumatic for them, and something that parents should introduce themselves in controlled circumstances if possible (speaking as a mum of 2 small children). I've played some pretty damned dark 18+ events, and wouldn't want my kids to encounter that accidently.

Now, 40k is a game that, no matter how much we want it to be adults only, attacts a lot of kids. The main rulebook and codeces - even the ones that include Slaanesh - do not include graphic sexual content. They imply it, they don't make a secret of it, but they don't get explicit. You have to go looking for the more adult stuff, online, Black Library, but even then it's mostly implied rather than *shown*. This is because of the children aspect.

GW are not trying to pretend it doesn't exist, but instead aren't forcing parents to broach a subject they may not want to deal with in the context of a game.

And I can see why people don't like their escapism game having the subject raised. I certainly wouldn't like to accidently come across rape plot in my larp weekends when it's not supposed to be there. So I have no trouble with someone having an issue with the scene being made using models from 40k, and shown on 40k forums.

That doesn't mean I disapprove of the diorama itself, but that I can understand why others have issues with how it was made, what it was made of and the setting in the piece...

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post #79 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 07:21 PM
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We read about many cruel torturers in gw books, much violence and war is everywhere. But somehow rape altough really bad thing, is like a tabu to them?

We read about babies beeing killed by knifes, but one guy zipping his pants brings outcry. Maybe this diorama is statement, about issues that BL say you cant write about. Ive read so many guard novels and always been thinking when they are far away from home and all, where are the women? Seems many guard guy are eunuchs in 40k world..

Rape is an really ugly and bad thing, but if you can write about torture in details whats wrong with rape in all that? Diorama on other hand, will surely raise some eyebrows..
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post #80 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 07:45 PM
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What gets me is rape bothers you but in the last month alone on dakkadakka I seen several displays with marines crucified, cut up torn in half and being blasted through and through. But this bothers you? I think you have some issues you don't notice lol.

Long story short the guy did a nice conversion about some crap that happens in warhammer and it is just as disturbing as a dead or soon to be tortured marine.
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