[NSFW] Thoughts on this highly controversial Warhammer 40,000 diorama. - Page 7 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #61 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 03:25 AM
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Even if he was, calm the hell down.


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post #62 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 07:25 AM
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Well, I don't know that he was joking. Being sarcastic maybe, but I think we should all know how effective sarcasm is on internet forums (not at all).

Let's take stock for a moment. There's a questionable diorama. And we have all engaged in a mostly thoughtful discussion about its nature and meaning. I think that's pretty good.

I would be really disturbed if somebody on our board endorsed rape as a good thing. Thankfully no one has done such a despicable thing. Instead we differ on what the diorama might mean, and in how we think or how western society should approach or discuss rape.

This difference of opinion is dour and it's sorrowful, but it isn't sick or twisted. If a society (or a person) is going to deal with a trauma like rape it can't just be ignored - it must be thought of or brought out of the shadows. Hopefully then it might be coped with, prosecuted, and healed.

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Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.
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post #63 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by neferhet View Post

Edit: because if this is not disturbing you, well...you are probably part of the Blood Pact.
just another day in the guard?

Last edited by Haskanael; 02-06-14 at 07:50 AM.
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post #64 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 08:38 AM
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I'm going to remind everyone that personal attacks are unnecessary and won't be tolerated further in this thread.

Keep it civil, or keep out of it.


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post #65 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 09:36 AM
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yes, just another day in the guard. Tomorrow with extra fun in the Eye of Terror!!

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post #66 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 10:28 AM
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The skill involved in the piece is undoubted, and as said it does have an extremely sensitive subject matter, but anybody who says it's not art just because it makes them uncomfortable is just plain wrong. Look at the work of HR Giger. Very explicit, and many times pushing that boundary we're discussing here, but he is massively succesful and popular around the world.

Then we have one of the cover art of Appetite for Destruction, one of the biggest selling albums of the 80s and 90s. I was a fan of Guns'n'Roses from the get go, and while I always found the image slightly disturbing, I cannot remember a single instance of it being questioned as being suitable for mass consumption. Why is it that now that the subject matter strays into the realm of that sacred cow for many of us, tabletop minis, are we kicking up a stink? It's been portrayed in every other art medium to date, and always inspires debate, which I believe it's meant to.

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post #67 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 12:17 PM
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I have one or two things to say about the piece, well more about the wider effect of it. Just in case anyone needs reminding, they're just my opinions, doesn't make them right or wrong. Mmkay?

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Yes it is pathetic that people are so unwilling to deal with something as natural and beautiful as sex, but torture and slaughter is fine, and in media even encouraged compared to sex.
I don't know if this was the point you were trying to make, if not I apologise, but rape is not beautiful. This is not a scene about sex, this has nothing to do with sexualisation. It's about rape, which is NEVER ok.


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Plus, it's not just inconsiderate of minors. It is inconsiderate of those who might have been in a similar scenario and such a piece might trigger painful flash-back/memories or even panic attacks. That, if nothing else, is enough for me to believe that this was a piece done out of woeful ignorance at best, and sick twisted fantasy at worst.
I agree with you that for some victims a scene like this could stir up painful feelings. But, I don't think for a second that that means it shouldn't be seen, which leads me to my next point. . .


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It has no place in the hobby. It is sickening, it belittles everyone who has and continues to victim of rape.

It might not have a place in our day to day hobby (such as being on display in a FLGS, or being on your gaming table.) But it very much does have a place.

Disgustingly, rape is still a topic that most people shy away from and ignore. It's easier to ignore it than it is to address it.

I don't know what the artists original intentions for this piece were. And I don't care. This piece gets in your face and screams "rape is still a thing you know. Just becuase it makes you uncomfortable and you prefer to ignore it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen." and, in my opinion, that's a good thing. Because people (and I don't just mean victims here, becuase talking about it for them is a much more complex issue) should talk about rape.

The more we talk about it, the more we ram home the point that rape is abhorrent, that the victims aren't to blame and that it is totally, completely unacceptable, the better chance we have, as a society, of raising generations who are less inclined to commit the act (because of heightened awareness of social reactions) And more importantly, maybe we can stop the cycle of victims feeling at fault.

Of course, I'm not saying that we should be talking about rape all day every day, that certainly would be upsetting for victims. But we need to stop passing it off as no big deal when it is brought up. It's too easy to label this diorama as a masturbatory fantasy from a sick lonely guy than it is to say "here's someone who has made something that will spark discussions about rape and sexual assault in a niche that is predominately filled with men."
It helps spread awareness to people who may otherwise have very little exposure to the issue, either becuase they don't hear about it in their day to day, or becuase they choose to ignore it.

That's a bit ranty/rambly so if you followed it to the end, have a cookie.

But tl:dr "Rape is bad mmkay. Talking about rape with the hopes of spreading awareness and maybe helping to break the taboo of talking about it; good."

Again, just my opinion. If you're looking to take your torch and pitchfork for a night out, knock on someone else's door!

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post #68 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
Then we have one of the cover art of Appetite for Destruction, one of the biggest selling albums of the 80s and 90s. I was a fan of Guns'n'Roses from the get go, and while I always found the image slightly disturbing, I cannot remember a single instance of it being questioned as being suitable for mass consumption. Why is it that now that the subject matter strays into the realm of that sacred cow for many of us, tabletop minis, are we kicking up a stink? It's been portrayed in every other art medium to date, and always inspires debate, which I believe it's meant to.
There was a rather large rejection of the Appetite for Destruction front cover by retailers, even though it depicts retribution visited upon a rapist. So this is obviously something that still makes people uncomfortable discussing and viewing 27 years later. This is a good thing as I don't think as a society we should ever be anethatised to the suffering caused by rape.

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post #69 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 12:45 PM
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Wrong and sick.
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post #70 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humakt View Post
This is a good thing as I don't think as a society we should ever be anethatised to the suffering caused by rape.
I agree completely. But the debate on rape is one that needs to be had. Here in Ireland we have a complete joke of a justice system that allows one judge to give a suspended 7 year sentence to a rapist, and another judge to give 15 years for a similar crime to a different offender. Even in the upper echelons of the judicial system there is an ignorance of the long term and lasting effects of this disgusting crime. We certainly should not be anaesthetised to it, but we need everyone to be aware of it.
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