[NSFW] Thoughts on this highly controversial Warhammer 40,000 diorama. - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 04:17 PM
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Dozens of hours spent on painting the prelude to rape among miniatures? I'm sorry, but that makes me laugh and shake my head...

I think it's more then pathetic that a game universe dealing with mass slaughter is so deathly afraid of any kind of sexuality (even Slaanesh-related things are talked about in as vague terms as possible), but I don't think this is the way to bring them up... The time spent on this thing could have been spent much better, that is all... I'm sure there is a will of actual art behind it, its just... it doesn't work.
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post #12 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormxlr View Post
Why is it disgusting? In the grim dark future there is only war and everything that comes with it, including rape,abuse and gore.

Why is it okay for dioramas to display mass murder,slaughter,torture but not rape and abuse? I understand this are not part's of the actual hobby, people play games to escape real world problems. But one can not say this is disgusting and has no place in 40k. Its the same as saying its not okay to paint it on a canvas.

Rape and abuse are all real parts of war. The artist presented a less shown part of it and is getting scorned for this. Is it where the truth hurts? Do you think it does not happen in real world? Does not happen in afghan and syria right now? Did not happen in Vietnam? Iraq? WW2? WW1 ?
Rape,abuse,murder,kidnapping,paedophilia would all be a common place in underhives and war ridden worlds all across Imperium.
You are looking at 40k with rose tinted glasses of a world with great heroes, noble deeds and forgetting how dark and sad the that world is.


Nothing wrong with creating art work that invokes emotions in it's viewer.

I also agree that we should be asking why we're OK with art that will depict mass murder, slaughter, and torture but not rape and abuse?
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post #13 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 05:16 PM
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If you look at it as a piece of art that is depicted one of the horrors of war...why is the creation of it such a horrible thing? Because it was done with miniature toys?

Why is this depiction of rape in war considered high art...


yet the diorama is "highly controversial"?

There are people with some of the Daemon or Chaos armies that feature naked daemons and banner/vehicle art that is relatively explicit and other than a few "gasps" is mostly received positively. While a depiction of a real horror of war is "not needed" in the hobby?

While I would never create such a diorama (I paint minis to play not create scenes) I could see why an artist would be compelled to do it.

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Nothing wrong with creating art work that invokes emotions in it's viewer.
That is often the purpose of art...if what is being depicted makes you uncomfortable it is probably doing the job it was created for.

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post #14 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Wusword77 View Post


Nothing wrong with creating art work that invokes emotions in it's viewer.

I also agree that we should be asking why we're OK with art that will depict mass murder, slaughter, and torture but not rape and abuse?

Because this is what m*ASS* media depicts as bad no matter what(which i agree with) while all of the above are fine as long as the "right" guys do it. You don't want your soldiers to look bad when you invade another country.




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Originally Posted by driller View Post
Dozens of hours spent on painting the prelude to rape among miniatures? I'm sorry, but that makes me laugh and shake my head...

I think it's more then pathetic that a game universe dealing with mass slaughter is so deathly afraid of any kind of sexuality (even Slaanesh-related things are talked about in as vague terms as possible), but I don't think this is the way to bring them up... The time spent on this thing could have been spent much better, that is all... I'm sure there is a will of actual art behind it, its just... it doesn't work.
I see your point but would you elaborate on it please? Why does it not work? This is as much part of 40k as a diorama I saw where an Inquisitor was torturing a xenos woman. No one blinked an eye and praised the work.

Yes it is pathetic that people are so unwilling to deal with something as natural and beautiful as sex, but torture and slaughter is fine, and in media even encouraged compared to sex.


However why is there a complaint that this a time wasted? If he painted those IG impaling that eldar on their bayonets her insides exploding in all directions while a severed guard head is flying in the air. that would be fine and called a master piece. Where is the logic?

He used one type of media to represent an idea. What if he used Bolt Action figures that are throwing Jews in a brother grave? Malifaux models that show child labor of Victorian age?

Question the world that we live in not the art that depicts it.
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post #15 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 05:59 PM
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Not for kiddies, not safe for work but definitely not inappropriate. Things like this have not been censored entirely in the fluff side of the hobby, why should they be censored here?

Genocide, murder, torture, rape. Are we really that conceited we see three of these as fine but one of them as not?

I'm defending this purely because of the creative and honesty aspects of it. It's war. Things like this shouldn't happen but they do and trying to hide this accomplishes nothing.


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post #16 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 07:06 PM
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If it makes anyone feel better they ll be executed for heresy.

But seriously, if this offends anyone they probably shouldn t read without remorse.
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post #17 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 07:15 PM
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I don't think anybody's going to think it's a beautiful thing being depicted, but as it's been said before, it's war. This shit happens in real war. They'll do what they do then they'll walk back to base and get a bolt round through the skull each for heresy. Simple as that.

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post #18 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 07:19 PM
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So I read this thread as an experiment. I wanted to read all the reactions then decide if I wanted to view the diorama. At the time of this response I have not yet looked, but I am inclined to agree with those discussing it as "art" instead of as "hobby."

The difference between between the two is context. I wouldn't trot out a diorama showing off rape (or gory destruction) at the FLGS with a bunch of 10 year old children standing around. THAT is inappropriate. Somebody creating a diorama showing this type of content in and of itself isn't wrong, using it irresponsibly is wrong.

Does rape and torture happen in the real world? Yes. Would they happen in the 40K universe? Again, yes.

Intent also matters. If the piece here was made by a misogynist war gamer for kicks then it is inappropriate. But if the intent was to create a piece which comments on the inconsistency of how warhammer 40k (and western society in general) accepts violent content much more readily than sexual content - it would be perfectly valid. That this question is raised in the context of a miniature war game asks a further uncomfortable question about our values as wargamers. Why do we through our hobby glorify the violence already so prevalent in our culture? And why is this diorama taboo, is it because it suggests sexual violence? Or because or because it suggests sex at all?

Let's turn this around and put the question into the content of daily human life. We (western society) suppresses sexual content compare to violent content. But why does that make any sense?

As a society we hope everyone in their lifetime will have sex. Hopefully it will be responsible sex with appropriate use of prophylactics to prevent the spread of disease and where appropriate pregnancy. And hopefully they will have lots of it. Hopefully it will be fulfilling and fun and loving.

Conversely, as a society we hope no one will murder another person. Sometimes it may be a necessity in war or in self defense. But it shouldn't be glorified any more than is necessary to let those people who must commit such acts of violence that we as a society understand and support them, and where necessary forgive them.

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Could someone please call the police on this guy? I can hear the English Language screaming in pain. This has to be illegal somewhere.
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post #19 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 10:20 PM
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A question: why are we ok with dioramas or drawings of daemons going to take heads of poor guardsman or tyranid horror piercing torugh skin and bones and gnawing people, bolter rounds exploding intestines (these pictures are in codexes, brb's, old white dwrfs etc) and why are we not ok with the hint of a rape?
Clearly sex related abuses are harder to accept than death and disembowelment.
Wich is funny to me.
Back to topic. The diorama is a form of art. it could have been done by any skilled artist with no or little knowledge of the game. it could as well be exposed at a contemporary art exibit. The artist choose to use gw models to express the horror of war violence in all its forms (the blasted eldar vehicle, the muddy field, the savage looks of the guards, the determined yet doomed look of the eldar...)
Oh, and also: Slaanesh is very pleased. Very very pleased.

Edit: because if this is not disturbing you, well...you are probably part of the Blood Pact.

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post #20 of 105 (permalink) Old 02-03-14, 10:40 PM
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Not an idea I've ever considered or seen represented in 40k, but I really like it. Everything is pretty well done, with the exception of her breasts, which look terrible.

Is that how Eldar females look?


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