Mandatory organ donation in Wales. - Page 13 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #121 of 125 (permalink) Old 09-22-13, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by andygorn View Post
Please don't hate me personally, I'm only asking, okay?
Why does it have to be a public register? I can't see any need for one at all. In which case, I think I can see (and agree with) your opposition to it.
If I had a donor card, I would pick it up anonymously, no-one would know I had done it (other than whoever I tell), I'm not on any register anywhere and no-one will get to find out about it until I die. So that's about as confidential as it can get
Given that this above system works perfectly fine and doesn't need anyone to record any of my details beforehand (etc), I can't see any proper justification for introducing a register for people who wants the opposite at all.

I think mandatory donation is really good idea and it needs to be done, but doing it virtually the opposite way around to how the existing donor card system works (and with the concerns you have about that) is a huge and unnecessary mistake/waste of money/invasion of privacy/breach of confidentiality/etc.
There has to be a register somewhere that you resister you intentions not to donate.

The whole point of this disgusting legislation is that doctors are too fucking lazy to do things properly and take the time to find out the intentions of the deceased. If this is to come into play then your objection has to be on a register that is quicker and easier to access than asking the next of kin who one would hope would be the first to be contacted in such a situation.

A card is simply ridiculous as that places us firmly in the hands of whatever retard looks through the pockets of your corpse, an already appalling notion and is too careless to look properly and misses finding the card that says no.

Last edited by Magpie_Oz; 09-22-13 at 02:12 PM.
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post #122 of 125 (permalink) Old 09-22-13, 02:33 PM
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There has to be a register somewhere that you resister you intentions not to donate.

The whole point of this disgusting legislation is that doctors are too fucking lazy to do things properly and take the time to find out the intentions of the deceased. If this is to come into play then your objection has to be on a register that is quicker and easier to access than asking the next of kin who one would hope would be the first to be contacted in such a situation.

A card is simply ridiculous as that places us firmly in the hands of whatever retard looks through the pockets of your corpse, an already appalling notion and is too careless to look properly and misses finding the card that says no.
I don't understand:

There doesn't have to be any register at all: there isn't one for people who want to donate, so why would there have to be one for people who don't?
All they have to do is ask your next of kin (who should know what you want anyway).

Can't account for people being lazy and not bothering.
But the guidelines can be easily set in stone in terms of that doctors/health professionals have a duty to check with the next of kin + they'd have to check for an "I don't want to donate" card.

However, if they deliberately don't look for a card, deliberately don't consult with anyone and then use your bits...but your estate/relatives/next of kin know you didn't want your organd to be donated, then they can sue the hospital.

You do know that people outside of the family look through dead people's possessions all the time?
Or are you meaning it's a breach of your rights/privacy if a police officer finds your "I don't want to be a donor" card when they are checking your body for forms of ID?

Donor cards can be missed at the moment, so no difference there. Not much in life is 100%...but if they cock it up, then whoever is left (+ who cares enough about it) sues them.

Urgently trying to trace any living relatives of Private Sam/Samuel "Jock" Wilson (Black Watch, No. 6 Commando, UK Army Service ID 2764432, died 10.06.44). Any info/suggestions gratefully received.

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post #123 of 125 (permalink) Old 09-22-13, 02:42 PM
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I don't understand:

There doesn't have to be any register at all: there isn't one for people who want to donate, so why would there have to be one for people who don't?
All they have to do is ask your next of kin (who should know what you want anyway).
Which is the current situation so why change things?

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Originally Posted by andygorn View Post
Can't account for people being lazy and not bothering.
But the guidelines can be easily set in stone in terms of that doctors/health professionals have a duty to check with the next of kin + they'd have to check for an "I don't want to donate" card.
The absence of a card cannot be taken as consent, how do we know the card hasn't been lost in whatever misadventure has befallen you?

This is kind of the whole nub of my objection. The problem with assumed consent is that it is very difficult to be certain of something based on it's absence.

There is no card so we assume have consent is not as certain as We have found a card that gives consent.

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Originally Posted by andygorn View Post
You do know that people outside of the family look through dead people's possessions all the time?
Or are you meaning it's a breach of your rights/privacy if a police officer finds your "I don't want to be a donor" card when they are checking your body for forms of ID?
Yes of course and we expect that things like that need to happen as much as I don't want a stranger rifling through my loved ones belongings I understand that for the purposes of ID, donor consent and a range of other necessities that is acceptable, but it doesn't mean I like the thought of it.

Last edited by Magpie_Oz; 09-22-13 at 02:46 PM.
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post #124 of 125 (permalink) Old 09-22-13, 03:02 PM
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Which is the current situation so why change things?

The absence of a card cannot be taken as consent, how do we know the card hasn't been lost in whatever misadventure has befallen you?

This is kind of the whole nub of my objection. The problem with assumed consent is that it is very difficult to be certain of something based on it's absence.

There is no card so we assume have consent is not as certain as We have found a card that gives consent.

Yes of course and we expect that things like that need to happen as much as I don't want a stranger rifling through my loved ones belongings I understand that for the purposes of ID, donor consent and a range of other necessities that is acceptable, but it doesn't mean I like the thought of it.

The reason to change things is because people are dying from a lack of organs.

A lot of people don't care about whether their organs go to someone or not. But most of those people won't get a donor card just due to human apathy, or "I didn't get around to it", or whatever.

It's a lot easier for all of the people who don't want to donate to carry a card to say "don't touch", than it is to get all of the the ambivalent/etc people (who don't have any feelings either way) to have a card which says "please take anything".

Yes, I agree cards get lost (or left at home etc), but the doctors should have to check and your next of kin should know (and be consulted) anyway, so none of that is an issue.

If it's an "I don't trust doctors"-thing, then that's probably something else?

Urgently trying to trace any living relatives of Private Sam/Samuel "Jock" Wilson (Black Watch, No. 6 Commando, UK Army Service ID 2764432, died 10.06.44). Any info/suggestions gratefully received.

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post #125 of 125 (permalink) Old 09-23-13, 12:19 AM
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The whole point is that currently the doctors check with the Next of Kin anyway so what is the point of the new legislation ?

It's not going to change anything if NoK consent is still needed.
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