George W. Bush Defends PRISM: 'I Put That Program In Place To Protect The Country' - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-03-13, 05:13 AM
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"Live free or die" wasn't originally the title of a bruce willis movie.

"The terrorists hate us for our freedom!" So...the plan is to give away all our freedom so they don't hate us anymore?

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-03-13, 12:11 PM
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Overegging the pudding there there a bit.

'Freedom' equating to filtering information going through a series of checks and buffers to locate particular words or sayings? Sorry, I don't buy that the government is spending spending x-million dollars a year to pay the wages of a ton of the best and brightest techno-geeks within the country to look for people who have been downloading Warhammer PDF's.



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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-03-13, 09:13 PM
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No, they're not. But you missed my point.

Like I said, once you DO get on their radar, like for being politically outspoken, THEN they have all the reason in the world to go digging for dirty laundry.

Any vocal opponent to whatever current administration has PRISM and the will to use it will he extremely vulnerable to reprisal.

Speak out against the president, protest whatever current policy they;re trying to push, etc, and next thing you know every tiny infraction in your life is being scraped up and thrown in your face.

Not saying it's happening now, but shit like this makes it a real possibility.

And again, nobody has bothered answering why we can't just require them to get a warrant before searching for you through this database, or before gathering the info at all.

What's wrong with Due Process?

Considering Brits don't even trust their policemen with handguns, I'm surprised we're not hearing more sympathy/outrage from the UK

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-03-13, 11:32 PM
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Galahad nailed this one. It blows me away that people assume that because they aren't doing anything illegal that it's alright for their government to spy on them. Think that some of that information can't be used to defraud, extort, blackmail, engage in insider trading? There is a lot of legal information that people spying on you can abuse to hurt you and others. Anyone not familiar with existing abuses of power in government? Sorry to compliment your post G! I don't mean to discredit you haha

Bush enacted prism, and it's no surprise considering the NSA data collection center was started before obama got into office. So Bush starts prism, after Clinton started the carnivore program and one year before obama gets into the white house. Doesn't that give obama about five and a half years of not doing anything about the program except to use it Scofield? In charge of everything responsible for nothing right? Bush was a big government republican who spent like a drunken sailor too. That was then, this is now.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-03-13, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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To be honest if your connected to anything electronic that takes information, it is out there for people to find and take. The only way to be truly private is to live on some random island with nothing tech wise. If you have a bank account, any credit, a subscription of any sort or even a Social Security Number you are not private and any form of privacy you think you have is illusion.


PRISM is just the latest one, this is nothing new, and it won't ever stop.

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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-13, 12:31 AM
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I can deal with this information existing and even being collected someplace. It;s almost impossible not to collect some of this (the metadata from phone calls for example, is logged at the phone company as a matter of course)

What bothers me is the lack of due process involved to access it. If district attorney wants to tap my phone lines he needs to show a judge enough reasonable suspicion to get him to sign a warrant.

If the NSA wants to tap my phone they just have to type my name into a search box and click a button.

I'm fine with the government being able to listen to phonecalls, see web traffic, etc for suspected terrorists and interstate criminals and the like...but they should still have to prove their suspicions enough to get a warrant.

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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-13, 12:33 AM Thread Starter
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Supposedly PRISM just collects metadata, which is faceless until they go for a specific number. As in until you fuck up and they search for your phone number specifically, it is just a massive list of numbers

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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-13, 01:20 AM
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Because it's impossible to find out a person's phone number, right?

Besides, that's just the tip of it. They have more than just numbers. And the numbers are anything but faceless.

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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-13, 03:08 AM Thread Starter
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Again I just shrug at this, when it comes down to it, the only way to stop this is to cut yourself off from this century.

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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-04-13, 04:05 AM
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I think you're missing the point, which was that there's a difference between this data existing and the government being able to access it freely and without due process.

In the latter case you can stop it by making the government go back to playing by the constitution...which won;t happen until people stop thinking "I don;t do anythingillegal so therefore it;s fine."

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Codex: Angels Errant. Read it, please.
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Reporting: When/How/Why -- Read that too!
"...remember the Golden Rule: Chill out, they're only plastic spacemen!" -Brother Jazzman
"Galahad is 100% correct in his explanation. Anyone who says otherwise to [him] is vastly mistaken." -The Wraithlord
"You know what? Fuck DC comics." -Robert Downey Junior



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