Pentagon says women in all combat units by 2016 - Page 11 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #101 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-25-13, 01:44 PM
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Everything is a combat support, at least in the US Army it is.

Women and men pound for pound are not as strong as each other, even taking into account women's superior abdominal and hip flexor muscles. You can look to medical journals or even the Olympics for proof of that.

A women had a much greater chance of hip fracture or pelvis fracture if they have to carry heavy weights, increased of they have had a child.

In a war zone infantry are primarily placed on COBs and COPs where things like showers are rare to non existent. Supplies and basic hygiene can be an issue. The baseband typically remote and cut off. They wear their flack gear a majority of the time.

The military had special hygiene requirements for women, due to their internal plumbing, they are at high risk of infection due to lack of showers or the ability to clean themselves properly.

The flack gear I mentioned earlier that they would wear almost non stop, weighs 70 to 80lbs by itself. Add in ammo, weapon, helmet you are taking about 100lbs not including Web gear or packs.

Having a women on a COP will increase its chances of being attacked when dealing with AQ or Taliban. While in Iraq, AQI offered $10k for a captured Soldier, $50k if they were female. With a male we might get them back, female, no chance in hell.

Women, even inadvertently, will cause issues. Especially in a group of alpha dogs like the infantry. Men trying to be top dog, resentment towards a female soldier because of special treatment they will have to get because of hygiene issues, etc etc. I have witnessed it, seen it happen and we were a mixed unit with 30 percent female soldiers.

I am all for women taking up combat roles. He'll they pretty much had been in Iraq. But don't make it out like it's going to be simple.

As far as redesigning load bearing equipment. Should e make them a fanny pack? It's designed for the most comfort and last injury, you wear it lower, you screw your back up.

It just seems there are a lot of assumptions made about combat, any vet will tell you, you don't have any idea unless you have done it, and feel lucky you didn't have to.

Sorry if this feels disjointed but u typed it over a period of a couple hours ancient tapatalk is not the easiest to review.
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post #102 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-25-13, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Oldman78 View Post
So you are suggesting if male soldier from my section got grabbed I'd say a fuck it Dave is bloke it is alright to let him get raped and tortured, I DO NOT FUCKING THINK SO, no one would leave anyone for the likes of the taliban if it could be helped, and it makes no odd sif you are male or female they will do the worst shit to you whatever gender just to piss off your mates your family your government because they are horrible degenerate zealot scum.

Infantry sections are tight units, even blokes who do not like each other normally, work together great because working together keeps you and everyone else alive, the same would apply to a woman because any woman who wants to be in the infantry wont be like normal women, most likely she'll be a horrible grunt/tom/joe/buck/pongo etc like her male counterparts.

Once you see a woman who has been on exercise for few days covered in cam cream taking a dumb beside you at field latrine in the woods all notions normal male/female social norms go out the window!!!

So long as women are fit enough for the task and want to do it, let them but for the love all that's good just hope scumbag politicians don't let in a flood of sub-standard troops just to get numbers and headlines in the paper
I'm not saying that a unit would forsake a man completely; I'm saying that men are much more likely to do stupid things for a woman than for another man. They're more likely to take a greater risk for a woman.

@Magpie_Oz

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I don't agree with you that the novelty will ever wear off completely. Sure, when a woman first joins a unit there might be all baying and whooping but even in a year's time, there'll always be that little niggle.

I know women CAN be as strong as men, but on average they're not. By quite a bit. It's all in our genetics that men WILL almost always be stronger than women. Sure there are scrawny men and there are buff women, but there's a reason we separate male and female boxing, weightlifting and even tennis. Men hit harder, jump higher and run faster.

As for the event in the UK, I'm not sure which one you're talking about but I think you mean the one in Woolwich. I doubt it would have been exactly the same scenario had a woman been involved. Male troops taken as prisoners of war might be beaten just as bad as any female POW, but they're not going to get raped. Especially when we're fighting religious groups where homosexuality is a sin. Rape would be a lot more taxing on the individual on top of everything else.

We are all members of a sexually dimorphic species and we have to recognise that there are differences in males and females which make a difference in scenarios just like this one.

Most backpacks load their weight upon the hips anyway, so if anything the military equipment should be much better for women than for men. Women have higher lower-body strength than upper-body strength and for men it is the other way around (Correct me if I am wrong here). Despite this, men have a higher lower-body strength on average than women. If you took a man and a woman of the same height and weight, the man would most likely out-perform the woman in physical activity because that's just how our species works. Women carry a child on their hip because of their shape as well as their LBS being higher than their UBS; women are curved for a reason.

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Last edited by Silens; 06-25-13 at 03:31 PM.
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post #103 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-25-13, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Silens View Post
I'm not saying that a unit would forsake a man completely; I'm saying that men are much more likely to do stupid things for a woman than for another man. They're more likely to take a greater risk for a woman.
I have not seen anything any where that supports that.

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I don't agree with you that the novelty will ever wear off completely. Sure, when a woman first joins a unit there might be all baying and whooping but even in a year's time, there'll always be that little niggle.
It does, trust me. Perhaps the manner in which they interact might be slightly different but they are simply part of the team. If not you don't wan tthem there

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Originally Posted by Silens View Post
I know women CAN be as strong as men, but on average they're not. By quite a bit. It's all in our genetics that men WILL almost always be stronger than women. Sure there are scrawny men and there are buff women, but there's a reason we separate male and female boxing, weightlifting and even tennis. Men hit harder, jump higher and run faster.
What makes men "stronger" is that all of the benchmarks are set relative to men. It is actually very difficult to make a direct comparison between the two.

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As for the event in the UK, I'm not sure which one you're talking about but I think you mean the one in Woolwich. I doubt it would have been exactly the same scenario had a woman been involved. Male troops taken as prisoners of war might be beaten just as bad as any female POW, but they're not going to get raped. Especially when we're fighting religious groups where homosexuality is a sin. Rape would be a lot more taxing on the individual on top of everything else.
Rape's a sin too last time I checked. Again all you are saying is simply considered more horrific because of our current frame of reference.

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We are all members of a sexually dimorphic species and we have to recognise that there are differences in males and females which make a difference in scenarios just like this one.
Yes there are differences which is why we need to put a lot of effort in determining how we compare their levels of fitness

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Originally Posted by Silens View Post
Most backpacks load their weight upon the hips anyway, so if anything the military equipment should be much better for women than for men. Women have higher lower-body strength than upper-body strength and for men it is the other way around (Correct me if I am wrong here). Despite this, men have a higher lower-body strength on average than women. If you took a man and a woman of the same height and weight, the man would most likely out-perform the woman in physical activity because that's just how our species works. Women carry a child on their hip because of their shape as well as their LBS being higher than their UBS; women are curved for a reason.
Back packs do distribute a percentage of their weight onto the hips, not all of it. Points is military equipment designed over centuries for men should not be expected to serve a woman as efficiently, like you say they are different.

Again you are using the male frame of reference and expecting a woman to fit it.

What the military are seeking to do is find a female frame of reference and seeing if that will fit the tasks at hand.

Time will tell if they are successful on either count.
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post #104 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-25-13, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Silens View Post
Male troops taken as prisoners of war might be beaten just as bad as any female POW, but they're not going to get raped. Especially when we're fighting religious groups where homosexuality is a sin. Rape would be a lot more taxing on the individual on top of everything else.
You are completely wrong there buddy, the taliban rape men like you scratch your arse to them raping a man is just using him to jerk off, in a lot of so called religious countries rape is used as a weapon to demoralise the enemy! As for raping being a sin so is killing and your in a war zone forget about religion, you are way off the mark, man woman makes no odds you are pardon the pun, screwd!!!!!!!

When your in the army you get briefed on what can happen after capture and unless you get captured by a Geneva Convention loving liberal country you basically get raped tortured and killed and maybe not in that order.

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post #105 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-26-13, 02:02 AM
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In regards to the backpacks, I think a group of slow-headed gorilla's designed the service issue ones. They're not designed for male OR female.

And yeah, those heroic rescues of downed Nam aviators? Those were the stupid ones who forgot to save one shot. Afghani men liked to have what we called Bum Love Wednesdays. I have no idea if it was Wednesday or not, and it happened more than once a week, but the number of times a couple of ANA failed to turn up because they were practising who was the Colon Commander in their version of the Navy was beyond a joke. It's their culture. I didn't have a problem with that, but all I can say is if Terry Taliban had tried to pack my fudge I'd have squeezed so tight the fucker would've sang like Katherine Jenkins while he cut my head off with a rusty halal knife.



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post #106 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-26-13, 03:07 AM
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Lol @ Vaz
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post #107 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-26-13, 08:41 PM
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I didn't have a problem with that, but all I can say is if Terry Taliban had tried to pack my fudge I'd have squeezed so tight the fucker would've sang like Katherine Jenkins while he cut my head off with a rusty halal knife.


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post #108 of 108 (permalink) Old 06-26-13, 09:47 PM
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In regards to the backpacks, I think a group of slow-headed gorilla's designed the service issue ones. They're not designed for male OR female.

And yeah, those heroic rescues of downed Nam aviators? Those were the stupid ones who forgot to save one shot. Afghani men liked to have what we called Bum Love Wednesdays. I have no idea if it was Wednesday or not, and it happened more than once a week, but the number of times a couple of ANA failed to turn up because they were practising who was the Colon Commander in their version of the Navy was beyond a joke. It's their culture. I didn't have a problem with that, but all I can say is if Terry Taliban had tried to pack my fudge I'd have squeezed so tight the fucker would've sang like Katherine Jenkins while he cut my head off with a rusty halal knife.
Ah you mean man love thursdays? Yeah, the amount of times we would be made to wait outside an ANSF cp before being let in, whilst they assumedly gathered up the wide eyed(not the only wide thing mind) boys and hid them away.
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