Question for all: If God does exist, then why does evil exist? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
Off Topic Totally off-topic chat in here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
Senior Moderator
 
darkreever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Jersey, little ways out of NYC
Posts: 6,991
Reputation: 25
Default Question for all: If God does exist, then why does evil exist?

As the title says, why would God allow evil to exist?

Why do bad things happen to good people; what reason is there for needless suffering?

I understand the point of people being given free will, but why would a loving God allow his/her/its creations to enact it in this way? Why not curb such actions or remove it completely?

As someone who believes in nothing in particular, I swear by gods all the time but put my faith in people who have uncommon sense (IE common sense, though thats becoming a rather uncommon thing these days), it strikes me as odd that anything short of an evil or malicious God would let these things come to pass or believe that allowing evil to exist is a net good.


However thats me, what about you?

Damnation is paved on good intentions; subtle and sugar coated or blunt and honest
A hero is someone who steps up when everyone else backs down.
Popularity is what people strive for when they lack the strength to be themselves.


Seriously, is it really that hard to write reviews without spoilers?

Reporting Posts - read this
darkreever is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 04:17 PM
Senior Member
 
normtheunsavoury's Avatar
normtheunsavoury's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rochester, Medway, Kent.
Posts: 5,116
Reputation: 44
Default

The stock defence seems to be 'God works in mysterious ways!' or 'Who are we to question God's will?', both sound a lot like 'Don't ask questions we can't answer' to me.

To me God seems to be at best incompetent and at worst outright malicious, how people are happy to devote their lives to him/her/it will remain a mystery to me.

Quote:
Also, Ewoks eat people.
Never forget that.
Ewoks. Eat. People.
Galahad.

Black Serpent Sun

FILE 18
normtheunsavoury is offline  
post #3 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 04:24 PM
Senior Member
 
arlins's Avatar
arlins's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bury, lancashire
Posts: 537
Reputation: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by normtheunsavoury View Post
The stock defence seems to be 'God works in mysterious ways!' or 'Who are we to question God's will?', both sound a lot like 'Don't ask questions we can't answer' to me.

To me God seems to be at best incompetent and at worst outright malicious, how people are happy to devote their lives to him/her/it will remain a mystery to me.

dont forget " he,s testing us "

ask a creationist about the dinosaurs " its a test "

stock answers for questions they cant explain away ( as in the post above )
arlins is offline  
post #4 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 04:48 PM
Senior Member
 
iamtheeviltwin's Avatar
iamtheeviltwin's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Beyond the Pale
Posts: 992
Reputation: 32
Default

You really asked two different questions. I am assuming in this answer you are talking of the Judeo-Christian concept of "God".

One is about "Evil", the other is about "Bad Things".

Many "bad things" that happen to people are not in and of themselves Evil (Evil requires some form of malicious will behind it), accidents, illness, disease, natural disasters, etc are parts of the natural order. They happen to all creatures "great and small" with no ill will or order to them. Often they are needed parts of the natural cycle to maintain a healthy order and balance to life as we know it. The best answer I can think of to the question of "why bad things happen to good people" (a flawed question which in and of itself assumes some moral superiority or protection that should be given to "good" people...the real question is "why do bad things happen") is that the natural laws that were set in motion by "God" apply equally across all creation and care not whether you are "good", "bad", "ambivalent", "animal", "mineral", etc.

The second question of "Evil" has far more to do with free will. If a "God" creator has given humankind free will to do as they please, why would he then turn around and deny the results of the actions taken under that free will? Given that he has 1) provided a blueprint for humans to follow to be "Good" and avoid "Evil", 2) considers this material universe a temporary home for the human soul, and 3) has promised rewards and/or punishment for choosing to be "Good" or "Evil" that exist outside this material universe.

You may not agree with his conclusions or his theology, but if this is a question you truly want to explore the answers to, a good place to start is http://www.amazon.com/Problem-Pain-C-S-Lewis/dp/0060652969. Like I said you may or may not agree with his conclusions, but he does treat the question in a thoughtful way as opposed to snappy, cynical internet witticisms.

Servants of the Laughing God (Harlequin Themed Eldar Army)
First Eastern Mirage Corps (C:SM)
I am the Evil Project Log (All my work since restarting the hobby)
The Crusade of Morr (WFB Empire Battle Reports)
Dem Bones (Dice Rolling Program)
iamtheeviltwin is offline  
post #5 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 05:15 PM
Senior Member
GrizBe's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: England
Posts: 3,232
Reputation: 10
Default

Well from my understanding, the official response is that God allowed the devil to exist so that he could tempt the people and test them to see if they would still believe in God despite their hardships...

If thats true, it just paints God as an ass... if he really is omnipotent and omnicognisent as is claimed, he would have known from the start that people would have turned against him etc... which means he's pretty much written off a large portion of people. If god is meant to be a loving god, such a thing shows he doesn't really give a crap.

Now people use the free will arguement in that evil exist as we're allowed to choose what we wish to do with our lives... But again, using that arguement its pretty much a case of 'if you don't behave, your screwed'. Now where is the free will in that? Yes theres still a choice.. but if your really damned for enternity for stepping out of line and that was a known fact, your hardly going to not behave yourself now are you? And thus again, prooves god as a dick.
GrizBe is offline  
post #6 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 05:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Silens's Avatar
Silens's Flag is: Wales
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,662
Reputation: 17
Default

God gives us all free will with full knowledge of what will happen if he does so and then has a bitch fit if we don't act how he likes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordicus View Post
"Look they got a-OH MY GOD I'M ON FIRE FOR THE LOVE OF NAKED SANTA IT HURTS!"
Silens is offline  
post #7 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 06:26 PM
Senior Member
HOGGLORD's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: That place, you know. That place you went to that one time, surely you remember?
Posts: 891
Reputation: 6
Default

I do sometimes find that when people say how God releases demons to test us etc, it seems a bit like a parent occasionally hurling a rock at you or kicking you in the nuts and expecting you to love and obey them regardless... Doesn't make sense to me, I just can't see the benevolent thing working. I really find myself thinking that if there is a god/gods, which I wholeheartedly believe that there is, (he/she/it)'s probably not got everyone's best interests at heart all the time. I struggle to keep up with most modern religions when you look deep into them. Don't have much time to do much looking, or any asking from those who really know the subject matter (priests and such), but from what I've read upon the internet, something just doesn't quite ring true for me.

HOGGLORD is offline  
post #8 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-08-13, 07:11 PM
Executive Nitpicker
 
Galahad's Avatar
Galahad's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 8,276
Reputation: 15
Default

This answers SMBC Comic it nicely for me.


-=============]xxxxo Galahad oxxxx[=============-
Check out the Heresy Combat Calculator -- MathHammer Made Easy!



Codex: Angels Errant. Read it, please.
Heresy Forum Rules -- Read them, damnit!
Reporting: When/How/Why -- Read that too!
"...remember the Golden Rule: Chill out, they're only plastic spacemen!" -Brother Jazzman
"Galahad is 100% correct in his explanation. Anyone who says otherwise to [him] is vastly mistaken." -The Wraithlord
"You know what? Fuck DC comics." -Robert Downey Junior



Galahad is offline  
post #9 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 08:59 AM
Feed
 
Serpion5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Space
Posts: 10,976
Reputation: 51
Default

There is no logic or rationality in Christian Faith. It's all shit and made up now anyway.

You can thank a king and a council, all of whom were mere mortal men, for writing the current version of the New Testament, omitting what they thought sent the "wrong" message.

One of the dead sea scrolls for instance recorded Jesus as saying agnosticism was fine because having doubts is not a sin (or something along those lines, I don't recall the specifics). The church would not let that go in, because if people thought that was okay, money would stop rolling into their pockets.

So fuck Christianity. Even if God does exist he's been painted as a self righteous paranoid child and it'd take a lot of convincing (from himself of course) for me to see otherwise.


Nonsense is our Salvation

Serpion5 is offline  
post #10 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 09:03 AM
Banned
Magpie_Oz's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Not every shadow, but any shadow
Posts: 7,889
Reputation: 74
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkreever View Post
As the title says, why would God allow evil to exist?
Because you can't have good if there is no evil, it would just be "stuff".
Magpie_Oz is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > HO Off Topic > Off Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome