Question for all: If God does exist, then why does evil exist? - Page 4 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #31 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 02:18 PM
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So by that logic it's okay to be an asshole to someone who's been an asshole to other people in the past?

America calls that terrorism!

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post #32 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 02:24 PM
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Nope, the whole world calls that justice.

Religion has poisoned just about every aspect of human life for thousands of years, it has destroyed the lives of millions of people all over the world and has led to endless hatred, persecution and intolerance. Now people are waking up to the hurt caused in the name of some god or another and the first thing the religious do is cry persecution. It just doesn't make any sense at all to me and as a pastor I saw a while back said (sorry, can't remember his name) "If you're not being persecuted for your beliefs you're not a Christian". That came from a Christian so it must be true!

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post #33 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by normtheunsavoury View Post
Nope, the whole world calls that justice.

Religion has poisoned just about every aspect of human life for thousands of years, it has destroyed the lives of millions of people all over the world and has led to endless hatred, persecution and intolerance. Now people are waking up to the hurt caused in the name of some god or another and the first thing the religious do is cry persecution. It just doesn't make any sense at all to me and as a pastor I saw a while back said (sorry, can't remember his name) "If you're not being persecuted for your beliefs you're not a Christian". That came from a Christian so it must be true!

The thing is, people "waking up to the hurt" does not entitle them to suddenly turn around and start hating on every Christian in existence. While I can understand perfectly fine why they do it, it's still not right.

And that's my problem. People go on about "Religious people are racist crusading idiots who think they're better than everyone else! And they don't think women have rights and gays shouldn't be married and blah blah blah"

But I'm a Christian. I believe in equality for all. I don't murder people simply because of their religion. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other Christians that don't. And plenty of Muslims. And plenty of Jews. But you mention religion and they'll start putting anyone who believes in God into one category full of people who haven't moved onto the 21st century.

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post #34 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 03:06 PM
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But the thing is there are so many Christians and Muslims and other religions that the become spread out so far that they almost become like microbes on your skin, there are billions of them. I can't see and speak to all of them at once so I take them as a whole and attack what their religions stand for.

Not every Christian is a bigoted arsehole, granted, but an awful lot of them are and the main voice of Christianity is still an institution based on hate and intolerance.

Those hateful evil Christians are, to my way of thinking, true Christians, they don't water down their views to suit a changing society and nor should they, if your faith says that X,Y and Z are wrong and that is the word of God then who are you to argue?

The moment you start to dilute what the Bible or Quran etc say, you start to dilute its validity as a holy book filled with the divine word of whichever god you may follow. The more we start to see these backward views for what they really are the more people will turn away from religion and the better the world will be as a result.

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post #35 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by iamtheeviltwin View Post
You really asked two different questions. I am assuming in this answer you are talking of the Judeo-Christian concept of "God".
Technically no, I meant any religion which features a God that had some hand in creation and has allowed evil to exist (Gods which did not get a free pass.) The Judeo Christian God is certainly the one I am the most familiar with, but the question itself is not limited to that one if at all possible.

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Many "bad things" that happen to people are not in and of themselves Evil (Evil requires some form of malicious will behind it), accidents, illness, disease, natural disasters, etc are parts of the natural order. They happen to all creatures "great and small" with no ill will or order to them. Often they are needed parts of the natural cycle to maintain a healthy order and balance to life as we know it.
I understand this, but overall I am simply talking about the things that are not part of the natural order. A hurricane is not evil, no more so than the black plague or a car losing traction on gravel and losing control; but a man kidnapping another person and holding them prisoner for a decade most certainly is. The same for someone else who seduces widows and murders them; why would a God let things like this go on?

Even if some evil was allowed to exist, what is the point of allowing these more extreme levels of it?


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The second question of "Evil" has far more to do with free will. If a "God" creator has given humankind free will to do as they please, why would he then turn around and deny the results of the actions taken under that free will?
For the same reason a parent gives their child a new privilege and then takes it away if they cannot handle it? (Returning it when they can of course.)

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"Logic a 7 year old could work out"....what logic? All I'm hearing right now is "God is a superpowerful, universe-creating being who allows evil to exist, therefore he's stupid, therefore he doesn't exist! Aaaaaaaah lookit me I'm an atheist wooooo you're all stupid"
No, most of what you were hearing was 'God is omni-cogniscent and potent but lacked the foresight to see this coming, what a dumbass.' Coincidentally, you know who else gets painted in that light, the Emperor in 40k. Near god like being (since he denies being a god) who lacked the foresight to see, to us, the gigantic fuck ups his actions were going to cause.



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oh look

its the atheist circlejerk thread again

next thread
Oh look, you saw a thread that didn't tickle your fancy but decided to come in and take a shit anyway. I don't know what your fucking problem is all of a sudden, and it can simply be that I am only letting myself see this is 'you' as you always are, but no one is forcing you to waste your time in threads like this.

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post #36 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by darkreever View Post

No, most of what you were hearing was 'God is omni-cogniscent and potent but lacked the foresight to see this coming, what a dumbass.' Coincidentally, you know who else gets painted in that light, the Emperor in 40k. Near god like being (since he denies being a god) who lacked the foresight to see, to us, the gigantic fuck ups his actions were going to cause.
Good point.

I still stand by my point that if good must exist, evil must exist alongside it.

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post #37 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Iron Angel View Post
oh look

its the atheist circlejerk thread again

next thread
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Originally Posted by Jacobite View Post
Oh look

it's another Christian who is allergic to logic that a 7 year old can work out (you wana know how I know this? I was that 7 year old who asked this question and I'm still waiting on a answer that actually makes sense).

You want to start a faith based circlejerk thread go ahead. Don't be surprised if it gets derailed by logic. You are more than welcome to try and derail this one but given your posting history about religion Satan (should he exist) has more of a chance of being let back through the pearly gates.
Oh look, the end result of every type of thread like this.

Reminds me of the formula for... Gasp! The forum formula thread!

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post #38 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 10:23 PM
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
-Epicurus

My two cents. If god exists and there is evil and this being is god as defined by Christianity, then according the the Epicurean Paradox, god is malevolent. If god is malevolent, then god desires evil. Thus evil exists.

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post #39 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-09-13, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by ThatOtherGuy View Post
Oh look, the end result of every type of thread like this.
If people be posting snarky one liners expect them back ;)



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Originally Posted by Alsojames View Post
"Derailed by logic"....that has to be the single most ignorant thing I've ever read on this forum (and I was around during the time of Stella Cadente)

You've evidently not been reading your own posts then. This is coming from a guy who sets up a thread to defend his religion and shows his overwhelming lack of knowledge on the subject, then admits that he doesn't agree with most of what the organised sects of his faith have been preaching since they were created and instead is telling us his particular brand of it is correct... Him being a internationally recognised theological scholar and religious expert and all. Excuse me while I just bow to your superior knowledge of all things dogma...

"Logic a 7 year old could work out"....what logic? All I'm hearing right now is "God is a superpowerful, universe-creating being who allows evil to exist, therefore he's stupid, therefore he doesn't exist! Aaaaaaaah lookit me I'm an atheist wooooo you're all stupid"

I'm not an atheist either, I'm an anti-theist there is a difference. Your view on the matter as established by your own thread is that "God doesn't give a shit" when the holy book of the wider Christian faith states the exact opposite numerous times. Shall I provide examples?

What we have been saying is that the J/C God has not shown irrefutable tangible evidence of that love.


I'm not saying every atheist, or even every atheist on this site is like this, but goddamn I swear to god some people play atheist just because they think it makes them look smart.

Yea and 90% of Christians today pick and chose their beliefs like a kid in a candy store and you are a prime example. A lot of Christians also play at being "good little christians" because they lack the basic intellegence to figure out right and wrong for themselves. You need the threat of eternal damnation to keep you in line? IMO on one level that makes you a disgusting human being but hey:

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Like I said before, it's not the best way to get things to go well, but it does work.
.

as long as it works right. Except it doesn't... I'm sure the poor kids abused by Catholic Preists, the 150,000+ the Inquisition brutally tortured and killed, the millions of people dieing of AIDS in Africa, thanks in part to the Catholic Churches stance on condoms, the Crusades (a million plus), the Cathars (another millon), the Spanish conquest of South America (god knows how many), Ante Pavelić and the concentration camps in Croatia during WW2, hell even in Rawanda Preists were taking part in the genocide there, no doubt saying it was god's work to boot. So no it doesn't work... at all. You want ignorance, take a look in the mirror.


Last edited by Jacobite; 05-09-13 at 10:30 PM.
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post #40 of 60 (permalink) Old 05-10-13, 12:55 AM
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So according to you, if I don't follow the bible to the word, I'm not a Christian? In order to be Christian I have to believe that God hates gay people and women must be virgins in order to be married? That's what I'm taking away from your argument here.

And if a method doesn't work 100%, it doesn't work at all?

And my argument in my other thread was "God doesn't have time to give a shit".

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