What if you were PROVED wrong? - Page 4 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #31 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-13, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave T Hobbit View Post
This is the core dispute between atheism and religion; members of any religion have seen their God(s) produce results and offer evidence of existence.
The difference here is that I am not a manchild. I know the difference between evidence and coincidences explained to be the work of "greater powers". Scientifically, no evidence of any gods existence have ever been presented.

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If you are looking for tangible this-world results I suggest investigating paganisms. Although some have a hierarchical worship structure, many of them barter with God(s) for animal servitors, sexual prowess, and other gifts.
But does it work? If it does you can bet your finest silk hat I'm gonna throw goats on bonfires. I better throw on a donkey or two just to keep bits happy too.


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So you're a wanker?
Who cares? Anyone that says they don't wank is a lying twat. Wank hard, wank often.

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post #32 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-13, 12:37 PM
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Going back to the initial question, I would presumably convert to whatever religion proved itself to be true, or if aethism proved to be true, shrug, feel slightly dissapointed (like a slightly watered down version of when you find out that santa isn't real), then go on with my life.
Or, if certain religions (say, the classic ancient greek one) proved to be true in a certain fashion, I would accidentally gaze directly upon one of the gods themselves in their true form and have my essence torn asunder by the sheer power that this being exuded, which would probably ruin my day.

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post #33 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-13, 01:07 PM
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The difference here is that I am not a manchild. I know the difference between evidence and coincidences explained to be the work of "greater powers". Scientifically, no evidence of any gods existence have ever been presented.
Having conversed with them, I have more direct evidence of my Gods than I do of Ryan Giggs. Unless you have a method of distinguishing which sense data is evidence and which is not without relying on the acceptance that someone else is right then I can reject his existence for lack of proof.

As we are having a discussion of what we would do if proof either way were provided it seems somewhat outside the discussion to say no proof has been provided yet.

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But does it work? If it does you can bet your finest silk hat I'm gonna throw goats on bonfires. I better throw on a donkey or two just to keep bits happy too.
I am not aware of any scientific studies on whether contracting with God(s) produces a result above coincidence.

As I do not have a clone of myself I do not have a control to test my own faith, but am happy with my life so view my faith as functioning for me.
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post #34 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-13, 01:18 PM
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I have found that some elements of Paganism + Wicca + stuff like past lives do happen as desired.

I don't follow a religion as such, but my philosophy would evolve/change to accommodate/agree with whatever this truth was.

Urgently trying to trace any living relatives of Private Sam/Samuel "Jock" Wilson (Black Watch, No. 6 Commando, UK Army Service ID 2764432, died 10.06.44). Any info/suggestions gratefully received.

"Mockles! Pent on silpen tree, blockards three a-feening. Mockles! What silps came to thee, in thy pantry, dreaming?"

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More feedback = better stories for everyone.

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post #35 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-12-13, 05:58 PM
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Having conversed with them, I have more direct evidence of my Gods than I do of Ryan Giggs. Unless you have a method of distinguishing which sense data is evidence and which is not without relying on the acceptance that someone else is right then I can reject his existence for lack of proof.
Seeing as was taking a scientific stance, I'm not sure what your point here is. I did not flat out deny the existence of "gods", merely commented that no evidence in a scientific sense that god exists.
I said this before somewhere, but I'll say it again. Science and religion are not anathema to each other. The world is full of religious scientists. Though most of them do know that whatever personal "evidence" they have isn't scientific in nature and as such is pretty much useless to anyone but themselves.
Acknowledge of this does not make anyones religious beliefs less true, they just don't hold up scientifically as any results produced aren't easily replicated by anyone.
The existence of Ryan Giggs (whoever the hell that is) on the other hand, is very much easily proved by anyone with the dedication to attempt to track him down.

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As we are having a discussion of what we would do if proof either way were provided it seems somewhat outside the discussion to say no proof has been provided yet.
True. So i'll drop this.

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I am not aware of any scientific studies on whether contracting with God(s) produces a result above coincidence.
Damn. Well, can't hurt trying (unless you are the goat I get a hold of). I'll let you know of my results.


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So you're a wanker?
Who cares? Anyone that says they don't wank is a lying twat. Wank hard, wank often.
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post #36 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-13-13, 05:53 PM
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Seeing as was taking a scientific stance, I'm not sure what your point here is. I did not flat out deny the existence of "gods", merely commented that no evidence in a scientific sense that god exists.
I said this before somewhere, but I'll say it again. Science and religion are not anathema to each other. The world is full of religious scientists. Though most of them do know that whatever personal "evidence" they have isn't scientific in nature and as such is pretty much useless to anyone but themselves.
Acknowledge of this does not make anyones religious beliefs less true, they just don't hold up scientifically as any results produced aren't easily replicated by anyone.
It seems I misinterpreted your post, which might be why some of my response does not appear relevant to you; it sounds like we actually agree that religion exists as a subjective experience.

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The existence of Ryan Giggs (whoever the hell that is) on the other hand, is very much easily proved by anyone with the dedication to attempt to track him down.
Ryan Giggs is (was) a football player.

My point was that there are many things we accept without the effort to track down personal proof: such as, that the people we see on sports broadcasts are not actors playing parts.
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post #37 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-14-13, 05:57 AM
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I honestly don't think I would change much.

Be sort of "oh ok well how about that there is/isn't a God" ..... carry on as normal.
Same here. My sense of right and wrong which are tied to my religion still apply either way.
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