Would We Be Safer If We Banned Guns and Legalized Melee Weapons? - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-19-12, 12:08 AM
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this and that are different. a weapon like a gun is a tool, a means. games are being blamed, not as a means, but as an inspiration for the killings, I dont think games should be banned on the premise of influence, as many have said, it takes a very weak mind to be pushed to that level. My arguement is that the level one needs to be pushed to, to kill someone is higher with melee weapons, thus less likely to happen, add to that melee weapons can be defended against easier, reduces it more, and I mean to disarm the opponents who are easily influenced to pull a trigger, especially if they have a single target they want to kill, less innocent bystanders killed.
So you're saying that a someone who has a gun is more likely to kill someone then another person who owns no guns but is constantly surrounded by stories of being that worship a god through slaughter? A person who is constantly surrounded by thoughts of killing and revenge is going to kill someone with whatever he has. and like I said before junkies and really pissed off people aren't going to be stopped at the though of metal cutting flesh.
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Rape ? I've not seen were 40k encourages rape.
Slaanesh what do you think they were doing on terra during the siege. GW can't say it outright but when it says depravities I'm fairly certain rape is included.
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post #12 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-19-12, 03:08 AM
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Frankly, you sound like one of those idiots who listens to Manowar, -an awesome band- then thinks they know how to fight with a sword or a knife. Honestly, you're just going to get yourself killed just as easily with a knife as with a gun... just a little closer.
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post #13 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-19-12, 04:06 AM Thread Starter
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Frankly, you sound like one of those idiots who listens to Manowar, -an awesome band- then thinks they know how to fight with a sword or a knife. Honestly, you're just going to get yourself killed just as easily with a knife as with a gun... just a little closer.
so in other words, you feel that you could thrust a knife into someone just as easily as you could pull the trigger? people may die just as easily to swords and knives as they do blades, but the wielders of said weapons find it harder to end anothers life when you have to feel the others life physically drain out of their bodies thanks to your weapon, its harder for the killer to use, not for the action on the killed.

lets use recent news to prove my point shall we?

killer enters a kindergarten class room with a gun, he kills 20+ children because neither they, nor any of the teachers could really stop said killer with a gun, he can easily enter a class room, kill the teacher, then continue with his rampage.

now take the same scenario with a knife: he cant instantly kill the teachers by surprise without charging them from the door, the teacher has a slim chance to be able to notice the opponent with a knife and has a chance to prevent his assault by struggling with him when he first enters, which can be next to impossible with a gun. Add to this, the fact that if said killer had a specific person they wished to kill, I dont think that they would be able to kill so many in such a short time with only a knife, and many factors could have saved many children that day, if only it was a bladed weapon, not a ranged bullet weapon.

people are going to die, theres nothing we can do about it, we can help control how, and who dies though easier when people have to see the whites of their victims eyes, through which can shake alot of resolve when killing someone, at the same time, can reduce death by the pure fact of "running way can save your life"
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post #14 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-19-12, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Slaanesh what do you think they were doing on terra during the siege. GW can't say it outright but when it says depravities I'm fairly certain rape is included.
But that's coming out of your head not GW's
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post #15 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-19-12, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by The_Werewolf_Arngeirr View Post
so in other words, you feel that you could thrust a knife into someone just as easily as you could pull the trigger? people may die just as easily to swords and knives as they do blades, but the wielders of said weapons find it harder to end anothers life when you have to feel the others life physically drain out of their bodies thanks to your weapon, its harder for the killer to use, not for the action on the killed.
Are you trying to imply that the physical act of having to use the knife would slow him down here or the potential lack of mental fortitude?

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Originally Posted by The_Werewolf_Arngeirr View Post
lets use recent news to prove my point shall we?

killer enters a kindergarten class room with a gun, he kills 20+ children because neither they, nor any of the teachers could really stop said killer with a gun, he can easily enter a class room, kill the teacher, then continue with his rampage.

now take the same scenario with a knife: he cant instantly kill the teachers by surprise without charging them from the door, the teacher has a slim chance to be able to notice the opponent with a knife and has a chance to prevent his assault by struggling with him when he first enters, which can be next to impossible with a gun. Add to this, the fact that if said killer had a specific person they wished to kill, I dont think that they would be able to kill so many in such a short time with only a knife, and many factors could have saved many children that day, if only it was a bladed weapon, not a ranged bullet weapon.

people are going to die, theres nothing we can do about it, we can help control how, and who dies though easier when people have to see the whites of their victims eyes, through which can shake alot of resolve when killing someone, at the same time, can reduce death by the pure fact of "running way can save your life"
Mass death is still achievable by means of explosives, arson and poisoning even with guns out of the picture. I agree with stricter regulations on guns, but banning them altogether will change little if not nothing.


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post #16 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-19-12, 07:49 AM
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encourages rape


...



So its roll a d12 to avoid being buggered to death by the Chaos Spacemarine!

In the fluff it is alluded to but in no way encouraged!

"In the absence of orders, go find something and kill it" - Erwin Rommel
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post #17 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-19-12, 08:45 AM
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Guns are never the problem. Never has been, never will be. To commit murder on a large scale does not require a firearm. If he were still alive today I would tell you to talk with Timothy McVeigh. He killed 168 people with fertilizer, fuel and a rented delivery truck.

Or Jim Jones who killed 918 people with poisoned koolaid in Guyana.

How about Osama? He murdered thousands with airplanes.

What about Maximilien Robespierre who was at the head of the French revolution which beheaded/executed between 18,500 to 40,000 people including the King without a trial. And finally he himself was given the guillotine treatment.

How about Idi Amin? They don't even know how many people died because of him. Some say the death toll was near half a million people.

I could go on. As you can see, guns are not the problem, people are. Drugs are outlawed yet people still make, sell and consume them daily. Making guns illegal will do one thing, and one thing only, and that is to remove guns from law abiding people and as a result, only criminals will be armed.

The US needs to implement laws that make a psychology background check and evaluation be mandatory for gun purchases. A doctors note of sorts.

As for limiting or taxing ammunition to make them so damn expensive that people either cannot afford to buy the bullets for their guns or restricting a person from owning "X" amount of rounds will not work either. Reloading is common and easy enough to do already.

Again, guns are not the problem, humans are. We are a cancer on this planet, infesting every nook and cranny and leaving a scarred, blighted and dead land in our wake. We are evil, we created evil and we do evil things. Every other creature on this planet lives in a balance with one other. Some take, some give but they all balance out and thrive. We do not. We suck at this whole concept.
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post #18 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-19-12, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Unforgiven302 View Post
Guns are never the problem. Never has been, never will be. To commit murder on a large scale does not require a firearm. If he were still alive today I would tell you to talk with Timothy McVeigh. He killed 168 people with fertilizer, fuel and a rented delivery truck.
Fertilizer is, unfortunately, a necessary part of farming. So are guns to an extent - it's one of the reasons Australia's ban on semi-autos allows exceptions for primary producers. That's the balance that needs to be struck between necessary tools but I guarantee you if you try to buy large amounts of fertilizer for bomb making these days, people will know about it, and questions will be asked.

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How about Osama? He murdered thousands with airplanes.
And now access to airplane cockpits is highly restricted, and a lot of things were changed so that wouldn't happen again.


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Or Jim Jones who killed 918 people with poisoned koolaid in Guyana.

What about Maximilien Robespierre who was at the head of the French revolution which beheaded/executed between 18,500 to 40,000 people including the King without a trial. And finally he himself was given the guillotine treatment.

How about Idi Amin? They don't even know how many people died because of him. Some say the death toll was near half a million people.
Yes, because stopping violence in the community is exactly the same as despotic regimes and cult suicide pacts in 3rd world countries, and should be treated as such. Not a good argument.

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven302 View Post
I could go on. As you can see, guns are not the problem, people are. Drugs are outlawed yet people still make, sell and consume them daily. Making guns illegal will do one thing, and one thing only, and that is to remove guns from law abiding people and as a result, only criminals will be armed.

The US needs to implement laws that make a psychology background check and evaluation be mandatory for gun purchases. A doctors note of sorts.

As for limiting or taxing ammunition to make them so damn expensive that people either cannot afford to buy the bullets for their guns or restricting a person from owning "X" amount of rounds will not work either. Reloading is common and easy enough to do already.
Psychology reports are a good idea, but simply making it more difficult for people to acquire guns means that those who might use them in fits of anger will be less likely to have them to hand, and they can't be stolen/used by others who might not have passed a checkup, or picked up by children by accident.

However, I just don't think it's going to be able to happen in the US - as I said in another thread, there just isn't the will, public or political, there to get rid of most semi-autos, and anything that did would probably be repealed before it had much effect. That's life, of course, and you'll have to learn to deal with more shootings.

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven302 View Post
Again, guns are not the problem, humans are. We are a cancer on this planet, infesting every nook and cranny and leaving a scarred, blighted and dead land in our wake. We are evil, we created evil and we do evil things. Every other creature on this planet lives in a balance with one other. Some take, some give but they all balance out and thrive. We do not. We suck at this whole concept.
For some reason, this image pops into my mind:


I will disagree with you on this one. There are always those who will do unthinkable acts of violence and destruction, but it's two steps forward, one step back. It's just the the destruction is much more dramatic and easier to see, and much more likely to make the nightly news, while good acts and positive changes happen slowly, contentiously and often unnoticed.

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post #19 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-19-12, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by The_Werewolf_Arngeirr View Post
its ever more apparent that our kind is a violent and insane race, atleast if we go back to a time when only men were looking eachother in the eyes and agreeing to the deaths, would we be able to, atleast slow down senseless deaths of those who are innocent.

People can pull a trigger from 10 - 20ft away without true resolve and kill so many innocents, but I dont think that same person could stab each one with a sword or knife as easily, not without the resolve to kill them. it takes more willpower to kill someone that close then it does to kill them 20-30ft away.

we cant erase our nature to be violent. but we can lower massively the rate of death if weapons being drawn are fists and knives, not automatics and grenades.
I would be totally cool with this if there was a way to guarantee that all guns were removed from all people, organizations and governments. This is a stupid conversation because gun control only takes guns from the law abiding.
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post #20 of 65 (permalink) Old 12-19-12, 07:54 PM
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So its roll a d12 to avoid being buggered to death by the Chaos Spacemarine!

In the fluff it is alluded to but in no way encouraged!
You and I know that but what about the news? Imagine if someone committed a mass murder/rape and left marks of khorne and slaanesh everywhere. While it's only alluded to the news people aren't as stupid as people think they can draw the same conclusions we can. The difference is that we view it as how evil they are they view it as encouragement for violence.

A while back they had a story about BPA in plastic bottles. All they were doing is telling people about this. (news story if anyone is interested. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0130092108.htm)

Instead of taking it as yeah hey you should know about this people got worked up and automatically assumed that all plastic bottles were cyanide pills.

I worked for a water company the only way that it could hurt you is if you drank 200 5 gallon bottles a water a day every day for a year. Normal use was fine.

That's what you're doing with guns. Out of 1000 people one may committe a murder that doesn't mean guns are bad it means that people are bad.
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